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Game 2, Playoffs Round 1: Orlando Magic @ Toronto Raptors - Tuesday April 16th 8pm ET, TSN

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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    The team is obviously bonkers good when Lowry scores like that. He simply won't always put up a 70%+ TS%. The "finish" part is the part players can't control. I did like his aggressiveness in this one. It was mostly in line with the way he's played all season, which is good, except he was on fire a bit (much overshadowed by the white hot on-fire that Kawhi was).

    It's worth noting though that if Lowry scored zero points in this one, and all else stays the same, the Raptors win by 7, because they still win the Lowry minutes by 8, and this game, unlike the last one, they didn't completely crap the bed when he sat (helps that he simply played more minutes). My arguments last game weren't that it wouldn't be nice if Lowry was scoring. My point was the team should be able to win even if he doesn't score, and their failure to do so was the real issue with game 1, because they needed to correct that issue (and they did), while the Lowry scoring "problem" would fix itself, he was not going to be averaging zero points for the series.
    lol. This is complete nonsense. There's no such thing as "all else stays the same" in sports. If Lowry doesn't score, the entire dynamics of this game change ..... for the worse. Much, much worse. Just give up, Dan. You lost that argument. Lowry is an all-star, franchise player and sole "driver of wins", in your own words. If he scores zero points and we lose, then he should take the lion's share of the blame.... just as you give him the lion's share of the credit for every win.

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    • DanH wrote: View Post

      The team is obviously bonkers good when Lowry scores like that. He simply won't always put up a 70%+ TS%. The "finish" part is the part players can't control. I did like his aggressiveness in this one. It was mostly in line with the way he's played all season, which is good, except he was on fire a bit (much overshadowed by the white hot on-fire that Kawhi was).

      It's worth noting though that if Lowry scored zero points in this one, and all else stays the same, the Raptors win by 7, because they still win the Lowry minutes by 8, and this game, unlike the last one, they didn't completely crap the bed when he sat (helps that he simply played more minutes). My arguments last game weren't that it wouldn't be nice if Lowry was scoring. My point was the team should be able to win even if he doesn't score, and their failure to do so was the real issue with game 1, because they needed to correct that issue (and they did), while the Lowry scoring "problem" would fix itself, he was not going to be averaging zero points for the series.
      You had me until the 2nd paragraph. This team can maybe beat Orlando if he doesnt score. It certainly wont achieve its lofty goals if he doesnt score. This series is by no means a measuring stick. The difficulty on the video game turns up each round. We're still playing rookie mode.
      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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      • LOL, so if Lowry scores zero points then the Magic don't change their game plan to try and slow Kawhi down more? Get the popcorn ready 'cause I can't wait to hear where this is going.

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          It took 84 games to get to the pecking order we all expected. #1 option is obviously Kawhi, but #2 has to be Lowry going forward, and then Pascal #3. Lowry has to stay aggressive on offense. He's just not engaged enough when he tries to play the pure facilitator role. That's not good enough for the playoffs. And that edge he brings carries over to the rest of the team.
          That's what I find strange about Lowry. For someone as smart as he is, I can't explain why it's taken him 84 games to figure out how important his aggressiveness is to the overall offense.

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          • DanH wrote: View Post

            The team is obviously bonkers good when Lowry scores like that. He simply won't always put up a 70%+ TS%. The "finish" part is the part players can't control. I did like his aggressiveness in this one. It was mostly in line with the way he's played all season, which is good, except he was on fire a bit (much overshadowed by the white hot on-fire that Kawhi was).

            It's worth noting though that if Lowry scored zero points in this one, and all else stays the same, the Raptors win by 7, because they still win the Lowry minutes by 8, and this game, unlike the last one, they didn't completely crap the bed when he sat (helps that he simply played more minutes). My arguments last game weren't that it wouldn't be nice if Lowry was scoring. My point was the team should be able to win even if he doesn't score, and their failure to do so was the real issue with game 1, because they needed to correct that issue (and they did), while the Lowry scoring "problem" would fix itself, he was not going to be averaging zero points for the series.
            Perhaps it's terminology but arguing that players have no control over scoring, that it is a completely random event, is bizarre.

            As for the second point, I take the hypothetical but if Lowry scored zero points all else wouldn't have stayed the same. That's kind of the whole point people were making about game 1.... Lowry not scoring has all sorts of negative knock-on effects.

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            • LJ2 wrote: View Post
              LOL, so if Lowry scores zero points then the Magic don't change their game plan to try and slow Kawhi down more? Get the popcorn ready 'cause I can't wait to hear where this is going.
              Wait, you think the Magic weren't throwing everything they had at Kawhi? He was just unstoppable.

              I was also being generous when saying assuming everything stays the same because it assumes Lowry hucks up a full 20% usage rate even when he's not hitting, even though as last game showed he's more likely to emphasize his playmaking more when the shot isn't there. Obviously it's impossible to project what would happen if things changed - except for the bit where we just freaking played a game where that exact scenario played out and the Raptors still won Lowry's minutes handily.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • slaw wrote: View Post

                Perhaps it's terminology but arguing that players have no control over scoring, that it is a completely random event, is bizarre.

                As for the second point, I take the hypothetical but if Lowry scored zero points all else wouldn't have stayed the same. That's kind of the whole point people were making about game 1.... Lowry not scoring has all sorts of negative knock-on effects.
                First, no, people were not making anywhere near as nuanced an argument as "Lowry not scoring has all sorts of negative knock-on effects." Second, which negative knock-on effects? The ones that led the team to dominate Lowry's minutes and lose the game when he sat?
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                  LOL, so if Lowry scores zero points then the Magic don't change their game plan to try and slow Kawhi down more? Get the popcorn ready 'cause I can't wait to hear where this is going.

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                  • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                    You had me until the 2nd paragraph. This team can maybe beat Orlando if he doesnt score. It certainly wont achieve its lofty goals if he doesnt score. This series is by no means a measuring stick. The difficulty on the video game turns up each round. We're still playing rookie mode.
                    Have I ever disagreed with any of that? Lowry was never going to consistently not score. My issue was with people flipping out over him not scoring in game 1 as though it was part of a trend (it was not) or as though it was going to be a problem going forward (it was not) or as though it was the reason the Raptors lost game 1 (it was not).
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • An early play that seems to typify Ibaka. When Ibaka first subbed in for Gasol, Vuc was on the line. He missed an earlier 2 FT's, and also missed the first. On his second free throw, rather than box out Gordon, Ibaka ended up to close to the basket (like he expected the ball to go in) and Gordon was able to grab the rebound and simply go back-up for the dunk. Watching the replay, Ibaka did step diagonally into Gordon's path like your first taught, but rather than maintain contact with Gordon in a proper box out position he leaves Gordon and moves toward the basket. This creates a gap for Gordon to move toward the basket and he is able to out jump Ibaka for the rebound and 2 second chance points.

                      Ibaka has had a great season and is an important contributor to the Raptors success. It is just seems that every time he enters the game, he gets called for travelling, an illegal screen, missed shot or like the missed box-out play. It takes a minute or 2 and a turnover / 1 or 2 misses before he can knock down a jumper or a put back.

                      For the box out, I cannot understand why an experienced professional that does this for a living would fail to maintain a proper position given that a) Gordon is a good offensive rebounder and b) Vuc missed his previous 3 free throws...As a coach, it's failure to execute the fundamentals and basics that would be unacceptable...

                      Not a game changer and overall the team played tough D and Kawhi dominated. Loved this version of Kyle. There are area's that need to improve. Bench players Norm / FVV non-contributors offensively and 3P% low (Green, Siakam, Powell, FVV, Meeks combined 1 - 17) and should improve.

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        lol. This is complete nonsense. There's no such thing as "all else stays the same" in sports. If Lowry doesn't score, the entire dynamics of this game change ..... for the worse. Much, much worse. Just give up, Dan. You lost that argument. Lowry is an all-star, franchise player and sole "driver of wins", in your own words. If he scores zero points and we lose, then he should take the lion's share of the blame.... just as you give him the lion's share of the credit for every win.
                        I give Lowry the lion's share of the credit in every win? Really? Kawhi gets first star in this one, obviously. Lowry was also very good. Lowry would have been the reason they won game 1 if they'd pulled it out, but obviously they didn't.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • slaw wrote: View Post

                          This was a good game from Lowry. This is the Lowry they need. It wasn't just that 'he hit some shots' (ahem, Dan) it was that he was aggressive on offense in looking for opportunities and then he finished. Playing hard and doing all the little things is great but if you don't finish possessions (by scoring on offense or rebounding on defense) you are not doing enough. I loved the fact he ticked off Orlando as well. Great game from Kyle.

                          And, remember when Kawhi wasn't a take-over scorer 24 hours ago? 17 in the third quarter to ice it.
                          lol. I'm taking that to the next level when we need it.

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                          • DanH wrote: View Post

                            Have I ever disagreed with any of that? Lowry was never going to consistently not score. My issue was with people flipping out over him not scoring in game 1 as though it was part of a trend (it was not) or as though it was going to be a problem going forward (it was not) or as though it was the reason the Raptors lost game 1 (it was not).
                            Speaking on the offensive side of the ball strictly, Lowry not scoring was 100% THE biggest reason we lost game 1. Of course theres other more complicated reasons. A failed possession here, a turnover there... but a 15 ppg all star got 0.

                            I love Lowry. You know that. But it's fair to be critical, scoring is something that all stars are asked of, game in and game out. This is pro sports. It is results driven. You dont get credit for trying. "It probably wont continue" and "hey, shots are gonna miss" do not excuse you from criticism.
                            It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              lol. I'm taking that to the next level when we need it.
                              You've taken your lumps plenty on that comment since last night haha
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post

                                Speaking on the offensive side of the ball strictly, Lowry not scoring was 100% THE biggest reason we lost game 1. Of course theres other more complicated reasons. A failed possession here, a turnover there... but a 15 ppg all star got 0.

                                I love Lowry. You know that. But it's fair to be critical, scoring is something that all stars are asked of, game in and game out. This is pro sports. It is results driven. You dont get credit for trying. "It probably wont continue" and "hey, shots are gonna miss" do not excuse you from criticism.
                                I don't understand how this can be your position when we handily won Lowry's minutes. How can that be the main reason we lost, when we won the toughest minutes (those against the Magic's best players) with Lowry on the floor? And immediately got destroyed as soon as he sat down? If we even just got kinda destroyed when Lowry was sitting we'd have won that game. If we broke even like this game we win it fairly comfortably.

                                Obviously blowout wins like this require Lowry to score. But this team is WAY too good to allow one player not scoring to cause them to lose against the Orlando freaking Magic. No matter who the player is.

                                No one is happy about Lowry not scoring. But if you think the biggest reason for the game 1 loss is Lowry, I just can't connect your perspective to what actually happened in that game.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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