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Game 3, Playoffs Round 1: Toronto Raptors @ Orlando Magic - Friday, April 19th 7pm ET - SN1

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  • golden wrote: View Post

    Yep. NBA also hated San Antonio, so Pop did what he had to do to level the playing field. Otherwise Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and then Kawhi wouldn't have gotten calls.
    Says who? This is just pure supposition that just happens to support your argument. SA has one of the greates teams of the last 20 years, they didn’t win cause Popovuch was mean to the refs.

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    • DanH wrote: View Post

      The upside with Fred if they smarten up with the bench units is quite high, I wouldn’t abandon those looks just to do so.

      However, in lineups where FVV is guarding Ross, I wouldn’t mind some spot McCaw minutes to defend him with length.

      Certainly Lin is not the answer to anything.
      I just don't see the need to have fvv and Lowry share the court this series. FVV can be used to run the team when Lowry sits but having them both on the floor is redundant on offense and we give away a lot defensively as they are too small to guard Ross. FVV has been the first off the bench this series and those minutes in he late 1st early 2nd we have lost every game. time to try something new. I don't know why nurse keeps throwing Jodie our their for only 1 stint. just rotate norm, Pat, and fvv for our 3 guard/ wing starters keep it simple. the 2 pg lineup gives up too much defensively.
      To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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      • JimiCliff wrote: View Post

        What I'd love to see is someone do an exhaustive study of the long term effects of being an aggressor like Pop, or being more passive like Nurse is now. I don't accept it as a given that really getting on a ref's case will do your team good in the long run.

        But I will say this: that Marc Davis fiasco from the other night, I think that was directly related to the time he was escorted off the floor with security. I think that was at the top of his mind, and that he was sticking it to the fans for some personal vengeance. My personal belief is the team would see the benefit of getting better calls if everyone - coaches, players, fans - dialled the criticism back.
        To me what you gotta do as a coach is this: After the emotions of the game are behind you, soberly compile a rational analytical data set to show them the inconsistencies. Start with the free throw disparity on that one game, then build up from there. Don't go screaming and pouting (leave that for us fans), but really put a rational case together, backed up by the data.

        Make sure there is film, and numbers to present it to the league in a formal complaint. Hire former refs to go through to the stuff and help your case if you have to. Make suggestions, ask legitimately what you are supposed to tell the players in practice on how to play the game, how to approach the "continuation" rule (which is a royal mess right now), how to avoid fouls, etc.

        Do that internally/discretely at first, and I think you'll see results, as it's in the NBA's interest to keep the league competitive. But if you don't, that's when you give them the finger, leak your efforts and data to the public domain, and let the fans have a field day with it on reddit and youtube.

        There are different approaches, but regardless, as a coach & org of a contending team, you gotta put pressure when you see this kind of bullshit, and eat up fines from time to time if you have to.

        Comment


        • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
          You're under impression that if Toronto "plays by the rules" they will be rewarded. NBA doesn't want us in primetime. It's too expensive and not profitable for them. They'll do whatever it takes.
          No, I'm trying to put forward the shocking idea that loudly, rudely chastising another person as they're trying to do their job, in front of millions of other people, might actually not be in your best interest.
          "Stop eating your sushi."
          "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
          "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
          - Jack Armstrong

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          • slaw wrote: View Post

            Says who? This is just pure supposition that just happens to support your argument. SA has one of the greates teams of the last 20 years, they didn’t win cause Popovuch was mean to the refs.
            They didn't win "because of", but they wouldn't have won without it. The results are the proof of the pudding. Duncan was also a HoF ref whiner, btw.

            Parker, Ginobili, Duncan and Robinson are all in the top 26 all-time in free throws. Why such a disproporponiate amount of elite FTA guys on one team? Duncan is #3 overall ... tied with Jordan. There's a correlation there.
            Last edited by golden; Sat Apr 20, 2019, 04:47 PM.

            Comment


            • golden wrote: View Post

              Yep. NBA also hated San Antonio, so Pop did what he had to do to level the playing field. Otherwise Duncan, Ginobili, Parker and then Kawhi wouldn't have gotten calls.
              Yeah, Pop's spent a good chunk of the past 20 years being a cantankerous douche. In other news: recently, the second greatest talent he ever coached decided, mysteriously, that he was done with that franchise. Could be these things are related.

              "Stop eating your sushi."
              "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
              "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
              - Jack Armstrong

              Comment


              • JimiCliff wrote: View Post

                No, I'm trying to put forward the shocking idea that loudly, rudely chastising another person as they're trying to do their job, in front of millions of other people, might actually not be in your best interest.
                Well if Nurse can "think out of the box" and figure out a better, less confrontational way to level the playing field with the refs, then I'm all for it. Innovation is supposed to be his calling card... right? Whatever he's doing right now won't cut it in the later rounds.

                Comment


                • inthepaint wrote: View Post

                  To me what you gotta do as a coach is this: After the emotions of the game are behind you, soberly compile a rational analytical data set to show them the inconsistencies. Start with the free throw disparity on that one game, then build up from there. Don't go screaming and pouting (leave that for us fans), but really put a rational case together, backed up by the data.

                  Make sure there is film, and numbers to present it to the league in a formal complaint. Hire former refs to go through to the stuff and help your case if you have to. Make suggestions, ask legitimately what you are supposed to tell the players in practice on how to play the game, how to approach the "continuation" rule (which is a royal mess right now), how to avoid fouls, etc.

                  Do that internally/discretely at first, and I think you'll see results, as it's in the NBA's interest to keep the league competitive. But if you don't, that's when you give them the finger, leak your efforts and data to the public domain, and let the fans have a field day with it on reddit and youtube.

                  There are different approaches, but regardless, as a coach & org of a contending team, you gotta put pressure when you see this kind of bullshit, and eat up fines from time to time if you have to.
                  And then record a video explaining all of this, with clips showing the missed calls and upload it to YouTube. So all the fans can see. Do it after every game.

                  No wait. A fan can do this, so that the coach and team are not penalised by the league. This could be a kickstarter or go fund me campaign. If every Raptor fan kicked in a buck, there would be more than enough cash to fund this for the next two years.

                  Comment


                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    Well if Nurse can "think out of the box" and figure out a better, less confrontational way to level the playing field with the refs, then I'm all for it. Innovation is supposed to be his calling card... right? Whatever he's doing right now won't cut it in the later rounds.
                    See my post above. Don't leave it to Nurse. Raptors Republic members can do it.

                    Comment


                    • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

                      I just don't see the need to have fvv and Lowry share the court this series. FVV can be used to run the team when Lowry sits but having them both on the floor is redundant on offense and we give away a lot defensively as they are too small to guard Ross. FVV has been the first off the bench this series and those minutes in he late 1st early 2nd we have lost every game. time to try something new. I don't know why nurse keeps throwing Jodie our their for only 1 stint. just rotate norm, Pat, and fvv for our 3 guard/ wing starters keep it simple. the 2 pg lineup gives up too much defensively.
                      There’’s something to be said for talent though. Fred is simply better than the other guys. So, barring a real reason to sit him, they shouldn’t.

                      Meanwhile, the two PG lineup of Lowry and FVV have a 93 DRTG together. The only issue has been the offence, which will sort itself out if they stop running the offence through Fred. Frankly, it’s been the non-Lowry lineups that have struggled with Fred. Some of that is junk bench units, but mostly it’s Fred running the offence for no reason. Defensively, yeah, I’’d be fine with matching up with McCaw sometimes when needed. But not displacing Fred from the rotation, not even from the minutes beside Lowry. The issue is almost purely usage, and barring a night where Ross is absolutely killing us in that matchup, the Raps almost certainly get worse plugging any other end of bench guard in for FVV.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • DanH wrote: View Post

                        There’’s something to be said for talent though. Fred is simply better than the other guys. So, barring a real reason to sit him, they shouldn’t.

                        Meanwhile, the two PG lineup of Lowry and FVV have a 93 DRTG together. The only issue has been the offence, which will sort itself out if they stop running the offence through Fred. Frankly, it’s been the non-Lowry lineups that have struggled with Fred. Some of that is junk bench units, but mostly it’s Fred running the offence for no reason. Defensively, yeah, I’’d be fine with matching up with McCaw sometimes when needed. But not displacing Fred from the rotation, not even from the minutes beside Lowry. The issue is almost purely usage, and barring a night where Ross is absolutely killing us in that matchup, the Raps almost certainly get worse plugging any other end of bench guard in for FVV.
                        what is that drtg compared to the starters. I see magic pts per 100 poss at 88.3 for the starters while that lineup when Fred is subbed for Danny is 144 pts per 100 possessions. although granted he second one is a small sample size. the starters with lowry replaced by FVV is the worst pts per 100 poss lineup we have.
                        To be the champs you got to beat the champs

                        Comment


                        • the lineup that has just been really bothering me and seems to be when the wheels start to kinda fall off is that 1st sub of FVV for Danny. I know with how tight we keep the rotations we have to play 2 pg at some point but I'd rather that be when norm/serge are on the court. when FVV subs in we have Fred handling the ball and intiating pffense when kyle pascal and kawhi are all better them him in that regard. I'd just like to bridge those minutes have a norm or mccaw come in first when they can be buoyed by our other offensive threats. FVV can be better utilized with lowry playing along side norm and serge when we really need the ball handling.
                          Last edited by bertarapsfan; Sun Apr 21, 2019, 01:12 AM.
                          To be the champs you got to beat the champs

                          Comment


                          • Great work on the game thread Scraptor . Can't believe how fast you put these together considering game 2 just ended! We blew the magic out in game 2, now let's keep this streak going! Let's win 3 quickly so we can be ready to play either the Sixers or Nets!

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                            • Lol i had 2 posts advocating for more McCaw. Guess i was ahead of the curve on this one. I remember i was adamant now that McCaw was going to have a playoff moment. Guess nick was here reading my posts
                              To be the champs you got to beat the champs

                              Comment


                              • golden wrote: View Post

                                Well if Nurse can "think out of the box" and figure out a better, less confrontational way to level the playing field with the refs, then I'm all for it. Innovation is supposed to be his calling card... right? Whatever he's doing right now won't cut it in the later rounds.
                                It's amazing how some of even the most non controversial posts look funny after we've been through it all. Was he "out of box (and one)" enough?

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