Is There A Scenario -- Loul Deng edition

[imanshumpert]

How many times do i have to say that i do not actually want Deng. It was a tongue in cheek response to the OP.
And seriously it sounds like you are the one who does not have a clue. There is no way derozan can be considered an average or even above average defender. I don't care what stat you are looking at. The stats have no idea what teams philosophies are on defense and doesn't take into account what the defender is SUPPOSED to be doing on any given play or scenario. Also this iso defense stat doesn't make sense because like you guys pointed out, he never guards any iso players... like ever.. unless he's forced to ie. Miami.

I'm so tired of reading these egotistical posters on here that cant stand hearing a different opinion or point of view. Im also tired reading these type of debates over the same shit over and over let alone participating in them. Again, it was not my intention. This time im actually done lol

It's not about being egotistical, it's about you not knowing jackshit.

The fact that you even dared to suggest that having Deng instead of DeRozan would improve our OFFENSE is just absurd and shows that you didn't think before writing that post.

[Machine]

It's not about being egotistical, it's about you not knowing jackshit.

The fact that you even dared to suggest that having Deng instead of DeRozan would improve our OFFENSE is just absurd and shows that you didn't think before writing that post.

your username is Imanshumpert... I win

Seriously get over yourself bud. Its a valid opinion. There is no way you can predict what our offense would look like. Things do not always turn out the way u think. You are obviously not as smart as you think you are. By your logic Rudy Gay would probably still be in our starting lineup instead of Ross. It's ok to disagree but seriously get over yourself.

[imanshumpert]

your username is Imanshumpert... I win

Seriously get over yourself bud. Its a valid opinion. There is no way you can predict what our offense would look like. Things do not always turn out the way u think. You are obviously not as smart as you think you are. By your logic Rudy Gay would probably still be in our starting lineup instead of Ross. It's ok to disagree but seriously get over yourself.

It's an opinion alright, but not a valid one. It's not supported by any evidence whatsoever, whereas mine is directly supported by basically every single piece of evidence.

Not sure what that Rudy Gay bit was about btw

[Machine]

It's an opinion alright, but not a valid one. It's not supported by any evidence whatsoever, whereas mine is directly supported by basically every single piece of evidence.

Not sure what that Rudy Gay bit was about btw

it certainly is a valid one... What evidence are you speaking about? you don't have any because deng has never played with the raptors. basketball isn't just black and white. You cant just look at stats and think you know what you're talking about. Looking at stats, rudy gay looked like the better player than ross before rudy got traded. And technically he still is the better player according to stats. But we are a much better team and have a better starting lineup with ross instead of rudy. Stats don't necessarily tell you why that is. go figure.

[Bonus Jonas]

it certainly is a valid one... What evidence are you speaking about? you don't have any because deng has never played with the raptors. basketball isn't just black and white. You cant just look at stats and think you know what you're talking about. Looking at stats, rudy gay looked like the better player than ross before rudy got traded. And technically he still is the better player according to stats. But we are a much better team and have a better starting lineup with ross instead of rudy. Stats don't necessarily tell you why that is. go figure.

Based off usage and efficiency, it was pretty obvious that Ross was playing better than Gay. His TS% was 42 for crying out loud... And by said percentages, deng instead of detox an would make us a worse team offensively but most likely a better team defensively. Which is weighted more is a solid argument but saying deng would make us better offensively is absurd.

[Machine]

Based off usage and efficiency, it was pretty obvious that Ross was playing better than Gay. His TS% was 42 for crying out loud... And by said percentages, deng instead of detox an would make us a worse team offensively but most likely a better team defensively. Which is weighted more is a solid argument but saying deng would make us better offensively is absurd.

Its still possible we would be better offensively because deng may not waste as many offensive possessions as demar.

[BobLoblaw]

Stretching Fields and Hayes gets you enough cap space to sign those two IF you let Patterson and Vasquez and de Colo walk for nothing. And IF Deng AND Lowry would take about 10M each.

I think they'd have about 24 mil for these two.

[OldSkoolCool]

it certainly is a valid one... What evidence are you speaking about? you don't have any because XXXXXXX has never played with the raptors. basketball isn't just black and white.

This. Regardless of player

When dealing with trades there is no one argument that is absolute. Some trades make more sense than others and are predictable to a point.

But imanshumpert, when someone brings up a point that has some merit about DD often killing offensive flow and you readily dismissing it, you are just being stubborn, maybe he has a point. Its not so much about Deng, as it is about NOT having DD...(I don't like Deng at this stage of career)

[raptors999]

You can't stretch player who intend on getting another contract or playing. Hayes could be stretched but Fields isn't retiring

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[BobLoblaw]

You can't stretch player who intend on getting another contract or playing. Hayes could be stretched but Fields isn't retiring

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You can.

By the way, is Chuck Hayes really retiring? First time I hear about this.

[raptors999]

Chuck Hayes is more likely to accept a Stretch Provision then Fields. Chuck makes more money and plays longer. Field can just collect their money and then try free agency

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[imanshumpert]

This. Regardless of player

When dealing with trades there is no one argument that is absolute. Some trades make more sense than others and are predictable to a point.

But imanshumpert, when someone brings up a point that has some merit about DD often killing offensive flow and you readily dismissing it, you are just being stubborn, maybe he has a point. Its not so much about Deng, as it is about NOT having DD...(I don't like Deng at this stage of career)

Being stubborn is insisting that Waiters is better than DD, when ALL empirical evidence suggests otherwise.

[BobLoblaw]

Chuck Hayes is more likely to accept a Stretch Provision then Fields. Chuck makes more money and plays longer. Field can just collect their money and then try free agency

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Stretch provision doesn't have to be accepted by players.

[raptors999]

Stretch provision is a player trading money for a longer contract. Some players out of the league can be stretched but I'm sure it means can new signed contract.

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[planetmars]

Stretch provision is a player trading money for a longer contract. Some players out of the league can be stretched but I'm sure it means can new signed contract.

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I think you might be confusing the stretch provision with a buy-out. The stretch provision is an amnesty clause that was introduced in the last CBA. A player on the roster can be waived such that the only part of their salary that will count towards the salary cap will be divided by the number of years that equates to twice their contract length + 1 year.

So for example if a player had 1 year left on their contract at $9M. The team can stretch that so that instead of paying $9M in one year they pay $3M in 3 years. If they had $15M in 2 years ($7.5M per) than their contract on the books would be only $3M but it would be on the books for 5 years.

The player is no longer on the roster as they are waived/released and the team still has to pay their salary (minus any difference another team signs them for) but in the salary cap only their stretch amount is considered.

You can use the stretch provision on any number of players as long as they were signed after the last CBA (so basically every current player on the Raptors qualify except Amir). So the team could use it on both Hayes and Fields and it's up to the team not the player if they want to use it. But if they use it than that player cannot come back to the team for at least 1 year.