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Wouldn't it make more sense to play Lin instead of FVV at this point..?

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  • #16
    Puffer wrote: View Post

    Okay, I misunderstood your argument. You just think Fred is lousy and played well during the regular season for a couple of years under Casey because he got lucky and was in a good circumstance for him. Not because he is being used differently by Nick, and has had a series of injuries. And you disagree with this part? "All the guys behind FVV in the rotation are there because they are worse than him. If FVV is hurting the team, his minutes should be reduced, and replaced by increasing the minutes of the players in front of him, not throwing a worse player into the rotation." You think that the franchise will continue to give him minutes because they value him highly enough that they won't recognize the Sixers are exactly the wrong kind of team for him to play against in the role the Raptors are playing him in?
    I'm agreeing with the bold.... play more Powell and reduce Fred's minutes to zero. The team invested a lot of time in Fred to learn the system, which is really the only advantage he has over the other rotation options. They traded Delon Wright and wouldn't bring in a replacement level journeyman PG, either of whom would not have been as unplayable as Fred - given the same unconditional opportunities as Fred during the season.

    They bet big on FVV. The die is cast. The only decision left with Fred is: play him as little as possible, or not at all. I agree with DanH on that point, which I suppose is DanH effectively admitting that he was wrong about Fred in the bigger picture. Replacement level PG might have been a bit optimistic.

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    • #17
      Shit vs Shit. It doesn't matter.

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      • #18
        golden wrote: View Post
        ...The only decision left with Fred is: play him as little as possible, or not at all. I agree with DanH on that point, which I suppose is DanH effectively admitting that he was wrong about Fred in the bigger picture. Replacement level PG might have been a bit optimistic.
        I agree with your feelings about playing time for Fred. I think the Sixers are just a bad team for him to play against. Ialso agree with Dan that if he is played, it should only be with three of Kawhi, Leonard, Siakim or Serge and no other bench players and he shouod play off the ball. Ideally only with Reddick on the floor and he should stick to Reddick coverage. If the Sixers immeidately start switching to leave him with Simmons or Butler, Raptors switch back or pull Fred off the floor. He can get his minutes 90 seconds at a time, if need be.

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        • #19
          I am also hoping we'd trade Fred during offseason

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          • #20
            Wow look at that they eliminated Powell's minutes (who is actually bad) and increased FVV's minutes (who is impactful when used correctly, in spite of his shooting struggles this series, which continued in this one) and they won, including winning FVV's minutes handily (+10 in 15 MP). It's almost like he's better than a replacement level PG.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • #21
              DanH wrote: View Post
              Wow look at that they eliminated Powell's minutes (who is actually bad) and increased FVV's minutes (who is impactful when used correctly, in spite of his shooting struggles this series, which continued in this one) and they won, including winning FVV's minutes handily (+10 in 15 MP). It's almost like he's better than a replacement level PG.
              lol. It's all good, man. He was still 0 for 5, playing with 3 starters and Serge/Gasol, which was the only lineup I suggested he wouldn't tank the team. Bingo. Austin Rivers would have been + 20 in that scenario.

              Serge saved the team, city, country and FVV's ass yesterday. He was +22, man. If you're going to attribute all goodness yesterday to FVV, then your credibiilty is shot. Fred has been drafting off better players all year long and yesterday was no different. Replacement level PG confirmed.


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              • #22
                golden wrote: View Post

                lol. It's all good, man. He was still 0 for 5, playing with 3 starters and Serge/Gasol, which was the only lineup I suggested he wouldn't tank the team. Bingo. Austin Rivers would have been + 20 in that scenario.

                Serge saved the team, city, country and FVV's ass yesterday. He was +22, man. If you're going to attribute all goodness yesterday to FVV, then your credibiilty is shot. Fred has been drafting off better players all year long and yesterday was no different. Replacement level PG confirmed.
                When did I attribute all goodness to FVV? Or really any at all? Mostly I attributed a lot of goodness to them benching the right player (Powell) instead of stupidly throwing away the game playing him over FVV, who can actually be useful when used correctly even when the shot is not falling.

                I've stood by him being playable, and also being the best option for those minutes he needs to take. The rotation was basically perfect last night, no one ever disagreed that FVV should only be playing in lineups including most of the starters, that's true of any bench player with the construction of this team.

                You said the only option at this point is zero or close to zero FVV minutes. They played him 15 minutes and won them by 10. You really think they win those minutes by 10 with Powell in his spot? Nope. Austin Rivers would have been +20 in that scenario? How about Danny Green or Pascal Siakam? Were they +10 in the minutes where they played with three other starters and Gasol/Ibaka? I explicitly stated that FVV's shooting woes continued, but if you watched that game and thought FVV had nothing to do with their success while he was out there I'm not sure we were watching the same game.

                Serge was awesome. He was one of the three stars of the game, IMO. Not sure how that's relevant to the discussion at hand.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                • #23
                  DanH wrote: View Post

                  When did I attribute all goodness to FVV? Or really any at all? Mostly I attributed a lot of goodness to them benching the right player (Powell) instead of stupidly throwing away the game playing him over FVV, who can actually be useful when used correctly even when the shot is not falling.

                  I've stood by him being playable, and also being the best option for those minutes he needs to take. The rotation was basically perfect last night, no one ever disagreed that FVV should only be playing in lineups including most of the starters, that's true of any bench player with the construction of this team.

                  You said the only option at this point is zero or close to zero FVV minutes. They played him 15 minutes and won them by 10. You really think they win those minutes by 10 with Powell in his spot? Nope. Austin Rivers would have been +20 in that scenario? How about Danny Green or Pascal Siakam? Were they +10 in the minutes where they played with three other starters and Gasol/Ibaka? I explicitly stated that FVV's shooting woes continued, but if you watched that game and thought FVV had nothing to do with their success while he was out there I'm not sure we were watching the same game.

                  Serge was awesome. He was one of the three stars of the game, IMO. Not sure how that's relevant to the discussion at hand.
                  I'm actually agreeing that Fred is "playable", but only in very limited lineup combinations and in a very limited role. But seriously, man, when you're questioning whether a guy is "playable" or not, that's a pretty low bar, don't you think? That is basically the definition of replacement player.

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                  • #24
                    Fred seems to be slowly coming around the last couple games. I generally liked what he did in his brief time last night.

                    Lin is not the answer and the ECF is not the time to prove otherwise.

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                    • #25

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                      • #26
                        golden wrote: View Post

                        I'm actually agreeing that Fred is "playable", but only in very limited lineup combinations and in a very limited role. But seriously, man, when you're questioning whether a guy is "playable" or not, that's a pretty low bar, don't you think? That is basically the definition of replacement player.
                        Replacement level is Lorenzo Brown. No, FVV is not even remotely a replacement level player. Surely you can see this.

                        But I'm not questioning whether FVV is playable. You are. All I said was IF you decide he is unplayable, the answer is not to drop a lesser player into his spot, it's to have his minutes eaten up by the guys in front of him in the rotation. Which gladly is the logic Nurse applied when he dropped Norm from the rotation in this one. Gave the minutes to the guys in front of him in the rotation (FVV, Serge, starters).
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • #27
                          Unfortunately for Fred, Bucks are just as long as the Sixers. Probably the 2 longest playoff teams in the NBA this year from 1 thru 5. So yeah I don't know if Fred will get any more clean looks
                          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                          • #28
                            KeonClark wrote: View Post
                            Unfortunately for Fred, Bucks are just as long as the Sixers. Probably the 2 longest playoff teams in the NBA this year from 1 thru 5. So yeah I don't know if Fred will get any more clean looks
                            One difference though is the point. Bledsoe is like 6'1 and Hill is like 6'2.. so they aren't going to be as threatening as Butler or Simmons to block all his shots.

                            Most of the Bucks length is in their front court. Brook is a really good shot blocker. And Giannis is a freak obviously. Mirotic, Middleton, Brown, Snell, and Ilyasova all have length though. Might be harder on guys like Green, Norm and Pascal. Wish we had OG healthy for this one.

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                            • #29
                              planetmars wrote: View Post

                              One difference though is the point. Bledsoe is like 6'1 and Hill is like 6'2.. so they aren't going to be as threatening as Butler or Simmons to block all his shots.

                              Most of the Bucks length is in their front court. Brook is a really good shot blocker. And Giannis is a freak obviously. Mirotic, Middleton, Brown, Snell, and Ilyasova all have length though. Might be harder on guys like Green, Norm and Pascal. Wish we had OG healthy for this one.
                              George hill might be 6'2 , but hes got a 6'9 wingspan and is a top notch perimeter defender when hes locked in so that's largely irrelevant...Bledsoe is also very long. Everybody on the bucks has arms that hang to their ankles lol
                              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                              • #30
                                KeonClark wrote: View Post

                                George hill might be 6'2 , but hes got a 6'9 wingspan and is a top notch perimeter defender when hes locked in so that's largely irrelevant...Bledsoe is also very long. Everybody on the bucks has arms that hang to their ankles lol
                                Yeah, long and lean was the Bucks team building philosophy a few years back when they drafted Thon Maker and had John Henson on the roster. Not sure what everybody is talking about, but they are still pretty damn long.

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