Wouldn't it make more sense to play Lin instead of FVV at this point..?

[S.R.]

The heat are a different animal. They're like a mafia, Haslem is a capo in the Mickey arison family

This is a man who falls asleep every night with The Godfather on TV:

[KeonClark]

Neither here nor there, but the Heat just waived a young guy to make room for 39 yr. old Udonis Haslem. lol.

The heat are a different animal. They're like a mafia, Haslem is a capo in the Mickey arison family

[golden]

What Jeremy Lin is running into now is the salary cap trend where far more teams would rather fill out their roster with cheap young guys, even G-League level guys or raw prospects that may never pan out, rather than multi-million dollar vets who are likely to play very little anyway. It used to be the opposite, but you have to save cap space for your stars now partially by just not paying vets and also by finding young prospects on cheap contracts that you can burn minutes on. The days of say, a 38 year old Kurt Thomas getting 20+ mpg and occasional starts to put up 4 points and 6 rebounds and be a "locker room presence" are long, long gone.

Neither here nor there, but the Heat just waived a young guy to make room for 39 yr. old Udonis Haslem. lol.

[S.R.]

What Jeremy Lin is running into now is the salary cap trend where far more teams would rather fill out their roster with cheap young guys, even G-League level guys or raw prospects that may never pan out, rather than multi-million dollar vets who are likely to play very little anyway. It used to be the opposite, but you have to save cap space for your stars now partially by just not paying vets and also by finding young prospects on cheap contracts that you can burn minutes on. The days of say, a 38 year old Kurt Thomas getting 20+ mpg and occasional starts to put up 4 points and 6 rebounds and be a "locker room presence" are long, long gone.

[golden]

Not above trading either of these guys for players or picks if there is a good chance to improve, but deciding if there is a chance is the problem. The other question is what is the chance either player improves?

Freddy is not a great facilitator. He might not even be a "good" one. His shooting is strong, plays very good defense and is overall a heads up player, but every team looking at him will remember the games where is height was a problem. They will also be well aware of his ability to act as a PG. I think this will limit what anybody would offer. I don't have a clue what next season's draft class looks like. Masai and company have shown a good ability to find gems in the draft, or at least rotation players. What kind of a pick would Freddy bring back? Considering the average career for an NBA player is 6 years (as of 2010 - it's been trending upward), a lot of draft picks washout. What pick would you take back for Freddy and what pick would reasonably be offered? 20-25?

Norm is more or less a different case from my perspective. It seems like he kind of woke up. He might now be at a place where he can put "Bad Norm" away and only pull out "Good Norm." Good Norm is a player I would want on my team. Good D, strong drive to the hoop if he does it under control and he is a 3 pt shooter, which this team is going to need several of to get the most effective use out of Gasol. Or whoever replaces him next season. Again, it's a question of what you can get back. Not sure why another team would give you high picks, or even an equal player back.

This article thinks that Fred's free agent value will be fairly high....

The best NBA free agents in 2020, ranked
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2019/7/...wn-buddy-hield

[Puffer]

...If you want to "I told you so" on me for anything, it's that I suggested in the Sixers and Bucks series that most of Fred's minutes should go to Powell - which is what Nurse ended up doing until Fred Jr. arrived. Go back and look at my rotation suggestions - Lin is nowhere in sight. And Playoff Norm showed up this year, so I don't see anything wrong with either Powell or FVV.

Sell high.

Not above trading either of these guys for players or picks if there is a good chance to improve, but deciding if there is a chance is the problem. The other question is what is the chance either player improves?

Freddy is not a great facilitator. He might not even be a "good" one. His shooting is strong, plays very good defense and is overall a heads up player, but every team looking at him will remember the games where is height was a problem. They will also be well aware of his ability to act as a PG. I think this will limit what anybody would offer. I don't have a clue what next season's draft class looks like. Masai and company have shown a good ability to find gems in the draft, or at least rotation players. What kind of a pick would Freddy bring back? Considering the average career for an NBA player is 6 years (as of 2010 - it's been trending upward), a lot of draft picks washout. What pick would you take back for Freddy and what pick would reasonably be offered? 20-25?

Norm is more or less a different case from my perspective. It seems like he kind of woke up. He might now be at a place where he can put "Bad Norm" away and only pull out "Good Norm." Good Norm is a player I would want on my team. Good D, strong drive to the hoop if he does it under control and he is a 3 pt shooter, which this team is going to need several of to get the most effective use out of Gasol. Or whoever replaces him next season. Again, it's a question of what you can get back. Not sure why another team would give you high picks, or even an equal player back.

[GOLDBLUM]

lol. Looking back, I'm not even sure what Dan and I were arguing about, tbh, because we were agreeing on like 90% of the main issue, which was how FVV was being used by Nurse at the time (i.e. way beyond his capabilities). I suppose the main flashpoint was that I was saying that FVV's limitations rendered him a replaceable player, which we saw in the Orlando and Sixers series and half of the Bucks series. FVV was definitely exposed vs. length, and we will continue to see that in certain matchups going forward.

Be that as it may, it's very possible we don't win the Championship without him.
He showed out when it mattered and then some.
(...not that you're suggesting otherwise, necessarily.)

[golden]

LOL. Right you are, it was a shoot from the hip snark. I was simply referencing the statement at the top of this page, "DanH has been exposed badly in these playoffs - just like FVV. Almost everything his stats predict or suggest we should do is turning out wrong." Fred was having a terrible shooting stretch in the playoffs. But a lot of folks thought he was playing well defensively. Dan insisted that his impact was positive overall, significantly moreso than could be expected from Lin, who was a disaster in his time playing with the Raptors in the regular season. I would say Dan was bang on with that observation.

My comment was a playful potshot. Glad you took it that way.

Have a good day.

lol. Looking back, I'm not even sure what Dan and I were arguing about, tbh, because we were agreeing on like 90% of the main issue, which was how FVV was being used by Nurse at the time (i.e. way beyond his capabilities). I suppose the main flashpoint was that I was saying that FVV's limitations rendered him a replaceable player, which we saw in the Orlando and Sixers series and half of the Bucks series. FVV was definitely exposed vs. length, and we will continue to see that in certain matchups going forward.

[Puffer]

lol. You got the wrong guy here, Puff. I never said Lin should replace Fred in the lineup. More that, FVV simply sucked, in part because Nurse was trying to make him be a point guard, which he isn't and also because of his physical limitations. I kept pointing out that Lin sucked ever since coming here (more than any other time in his career), and I thought it was because he couldn't adapt to Nurse' giving his player's more freedom. My point was, and still is, that FVV can be replaced with backup PGs like DJ Augustin and that ilk. And that Fred is unplayable in certain matchups. Both of those things are still true.

If you want to "I told you so" on me for anything, it's that I suggested in the Sixers and Bucks series that most of Fred's minutes should go to Powell - which is what Nurse ended up doing until Fred Jr. arrived. Go back and look at my rotation suggestions - Lin is nowhere in sight. And Playoff Norm showed up this year, so I don't see anything wrong with either Powell or FVV.

Sell high.

LOL. Right you are, it was a shoot from the hip snark. I was simply referencing the statement at the top of this page, "DanH has been exposed badly in these playoffs - just like FVV. Almost everything his stats predict or suggest we should do is turning out wrong." Fred was having a terrible shooting stretch in the playoffs. But a lot of folks thought he was playing well defensively. Dan insisted that his impact was positive overall, significantly moreso than could be expected from Lin, who was a disaster in his time playing with the Raptors in the regular season. I would say Dan was bang on with that observation.

My comment was a playful potshot. Glad you took it that way.

Have a good day.

[golden]

Maybe Dan H was correct about the merits of Freddy vs Lin. Hotfuzz, Golden, where are you?

lol. You got the wrong guy here, Puff. I never said Lin should replace Fred in the lineup. More that, FVV simply sucked, in part because Nurse was trying to make him be a point guard, which he isn't and also because of his physical limitations. I kept pointing out that Lin sucked ever since coming here (more than any other time in his career), and I thought it was because he couldn't adapt to Nurse' giving his player's more freedom. My point was, and still is, that FVV can be replaced with backup PGs like DJ Augustin and that ilk. And that Fred is unplayable in certain matchups. Both of those things are still true.

If you want to "I told you so" on me for anything, it's that I suggested in the Sixers and Bucks series that most of Fred's minutes should go to Powell - which is what Nurse ended up doing until Fred Jr. arrived. Go back and look at my rotation suggestions - Lin is nowhere in sight. And Playoff Norm showed up this year, so I don't see anything wrong with either Powell or FVV.

Sell high.

[MixxAOR]

I don't really feel like making the argument that we should play the actual NBA rotation player over the guy who was decidedly not that should qualify as "correct." I love patting myself on the back on the rare occasion where I'm right but this one doesn't exactly feel earned.

What a flex lol

[DanH]

Maybe Dan H was correct about the merits of Freddy vs Lin. Hotfuzz, Golden, where are you?

I don't really feel like making the argument that we should play the actual NBA rotation player over the guy who was decidedly not that should qualify as "correct." I love patting myself on the back on the rare occasion where I'm right but this one doesn't exactly feel earned.

[Puffer]

yup it did not haha, Fredy sure made up for his early struggles during playoffs

Maybe Dan H was correct about the merits of Freddy vs Lin. Hotfuzz, Golden, where are you?

[Kawhisexual]

Eek... this thread didn’t age well. Lol.

yup it did not haha, Fredy sure made up for his early struggles during playoffs

[G__Deane]

It's hard not to like the guy but the NBA never gave up on him or it would have years ago. He turned initial hype into 10 seasons for 8 franchises and 4-5 productive ones while earning a ton of dough and becoming the first Asian-American to win a chip.

No tears please.