Wouldn't it make more sense to play Lin instead of FVV at this point..?

[golden]

When did I attribute all goodness to FVV? Or really any at all? Mostly I attributed a lot of goodness to them benching the right player (Powell) instead of stupidly throwing away the game playing him over FVV, who can actually be useful when used correctly even when the shot is not falling.

I've stood by him being playable, and also being the best option for those minutes he needs to take. The rotation was basically perfect last night, no one ever disagreed that FVV should only be playing in lineups including most of the starters, that's true of any bench player with the construction of this team.

You said the only option at this point is zero or close to zero FVV minutes. They played him 15 minutes and won them by 10. You really think they win those minutes by 10 with Powell in his spot? Nope. Austin Rivers would have been +20 in that scenario? How about Danny Green or Pascal Siakam? Were they +10 in the minutes where they played with three other starters and Gasol/Ibaka? I explicitly stated that FVV's shooting woes continued, but if you watched that game and thought FVV had nothing to do with their success while he was out there I'm not sure we were watching the same game.

Serge was awesome. He was one of the three stars of the game, IMO. Not sure how that's relevant to the discussion at hand.

I'm actually agreeing that Fred is "playable", but only in very limited lineup combinations and in a very limited role. But seriously, man, when you're questioning whether a guy is "playable" or not, that's a pretty low bar, don't you think? That is basically the definition of replacement player.

[DanH]

lol. It's all good, man. He was still 0 for 5, playing with 3 starters and Serge/Gasol, which was the only lineup I suggested he wouldn't tank the team. Bingo. Austin Rivers would have been + 20 in that scenario.

Serge saved the team, city, country and FVV's ass yesterday. He was +22, man. If you're going to attribute all goodness yesterday to FVV, then your credibiilty is shot. Fred has been drafting off better players all year long and yesterday was no different. Replacement level PG confirmed.

When did I attribute all goodness to FVV? Or really any at all? Mostly I attributed a lot of goodness to them benching the right player (Powell) instead of stupidly throwing away the game playing him over FVV, who can actually be useful when used correctly even when the shot is not falling.

I've stood by him being playable, and also being the best option for those minutes he needs to take. The rotation was basically perfect last night, no one ever disagreed that FVV should only be playing in lineups including most of the starters, that's true of any bench player with the construction of this team.

You said the only option at this point is zero or close to zero FVV minutes. They played him 15 minutes and won them by 10. You really think they win those minutes by 10 with Powell in his spot? Nope. Austin Rivers would have been +20 in that scenario? How about Danny Green or Pascal Siakam? Were they +10 in the minutes where they played with three other starters and Gasol/Ibaka? I explicitly stated that FVV's shooting woes continued, but if you watched that game and thought FVV had nothing to do with their success while he was out there I'm not sure we were watching the same game.

Serge was awesome. He was one of the three stars of the game, IMO. Not sure how that's relevant to the discussion at hand.

[golden]

Wow look at that they eliminated Powell's minutes (who is actually bad) and increased FVV's minutes (who is impactful when used correctly, in spite of his shooting struggles this series, which continued in this one) and they won, including winning FVV's minutes handily (+10 in 15 MP). It's almost like he's better than a replacement level PG.

lol. It's all good, man. He was still 0 for 5, playing with 3 starters and Serge/Gasol, which was the only lineup I suggested he wouldn't tank the team. Bingo. Austin Rivers would have been + 20 in that scenario.

Serge saved the team, city, country and FVV's ass yesterday. He was +22, man. If you're going to attribute all goodness yesterday to FVV, then your credibiilty is shot. Fred has been drafting off better players all year long and yesterday was no different. Replacement level PG confirmed.

[DanH]

Wow look at that they eliminated Powell's minutes (who is actually bad) and increased FVV's minutes (who is impactful when used correctly, in spite of his shooting struggles this series, which continued in this one) and they won, including winning FVV's minutes handily (+10 in 15 MP). It's almost like he's better than a replacement level PG.

[Kawhisexual]

I am also hoping we'd trade Fred during offseason

[Puffer]

...The only decision left with Fred is: play him as little as possible, or not at all. I agree with DanH on that point, which I suppose is DanH effectively admitting that he was wrong about Fred in the bigger picture. Replacement level PG might have been a bit optimistic.

I agree with your feelings about playing time for Fred. I think the Sixers are just a bad team for him to play against. Ialso agree with Dan that if he is played, it should only be with three of Kawhi, Leonard, Siakim or Serge and no other bench players and he shouod play off the ball. Ideally only with Reddick on the floor and he should stick to Reddick coverage. If the Sixers immeidately start switching to leave him with Simmons or Butler, Raptors switch back or pull Fred off the floor. He can get his minutes 90 seconds at a time, if need be.

[The Great One]

Shit vs Shit. It doesn't matter.

[golden]

Okay, I misunderstood your argument. You just think Fred is lousy and played well during the regular season for a couple of years under Casey because he got lucky and was in a good circumstance for him. Not because he is being used differently by Nick, and has had a series of injuries. And you disagree with this part? "All the guys behind FVV in the rotation are there because they are worse than him. If FVV is hurting the team, his minutes should be reduced, and replaced by increasing the minutes of the players in front of him, not throwing a worse player into the rotation." You think that the franchise will continue to give him minutes because they value him highly enough that they won't recognize the Sixers are exactly the wrong kind of team for him to play against in the role the Raptors are playing him in?

I'm agreeing with the bold.... play more Powell and reduce Fred's minutes to zero. The team invested a lot of time in Fred to learn the system, which is really the only advantage he has over the other rotation options. They traded Delon Wright and wouldn't bring in a replacement level journeyman PG, either of whom would not have been as unplayable as Fred - given the same unconditional opportunities as Fred during the season.

They bet big on FVV. The die is cast. The only decision left with Fred is: play him as little as possible, or not at all. I agree with DanH on that point, which I suppose is DanH effectively admitting that he was wrong about Fred in the bigger picture. Replacement level PG might have been a bit optimistic.

[Puffer]

Sorry to keep bursting your bubble that your forum hero, Dan H, is not infallible but he was dead wrong on FVV. I still hope Freddy proves me wrong that he's more valuable than a replacement level backup PG, like Austin Rivers, but he's been unplayable for 2 straight playoff series and in last years playoffs as well. Even if we go with DanH's "use him properly, as a spot-up shooter" nonsense... he's shooting a putrid .216 from 3. To top things off - his playoff net rating is -24.4 per 100 possessions. Wowzers.

I had FVV playing 6 MPG, but at this point, I think even that's too much. Just give all Fred's bench minutes to Powell and roll with a 7-man rotation.

The franchise values Fred highly and that is indeed reflected in the fact that he got paid based on last year's contract year regular season perfect storm. He will get opportunities to justify that faith, even though he doesn't deserve it. Even to the detriment of the team - to the tune of -24.4 points per possession. The only question is if Fred will reward that loyalty or will they regret it. I still hope Fred proves me wrong.... I really do. Have a big game 7 and rest of the playoffs, and all is forgiven.

Okay, I misunderstood your argument. You just think Fred is lousy and played well during the regular season for a couple of years under Casey because he got lucky and was in a good circumstance for him. Not because he is being used differently by Nick, and has had a series of injuries. And you disagree with this part? "All the guys behind FVV in the rotation are there because they are worse than him. If FVV is hurting the team, his minutes should be reduced, and replaced by increasing the minutes of the players in front of him, not throwing a worse player into the rotation." You think that the franchise will continue to give him minutes because they value him highly enough that they won't recognize the Sixers are exactly the wrong kind of team for him to play against in the role the Raptors are playing him in?

[Truth Teller]

Masai needs to learn that we do not need to give multiple 10M dollar contracts to the role players. Just fill the bench with rookie contracts and journeyman.

[golden]

So in a game that has a huge impact on the future of the franchise, with tens of millions of dollars of playoff money at stake, they are going to play Fred instead of someone who will help them win and possibly go on to the next two levels of playoffs and increase their chances of holding onto a superstar because Fred is getting paid more than McCaw? Or maybe I misunderstood the meaning of "they invested a lot of time and money developing him. Hell or high water." That is what you believe?

Sorry to keep bursting your bubble that your forum hero, Dan H, is not infallible but he was dead wrong on FVV. I still hope Freddy proves me wrong that he's more valuable than a replacement level backup PG, like Austin Rivers, but he's been unplayable for 2 straight playoff series and in last years playoffs as well. Even if we go with DanH's "use him properly, as a spot-up shooter" nonsense... he's shooting a putrid .216 from 3. To top things off - his playoff net rating is -24.4 per 100 possessions. Wowzers.

I had FVV playing 6 MPG, but at this point, I think even that's too much. Just give all Fred's bench minutes to Powell and roll with a 7-man rotation.

The franchise values Fred highly and that is indeed reflected in the fact that he got paid based on last year's contract year regular season perfect storm. He will get opportunities to justify that faith, even though he doesn't deserve it. Even to the detriment of the team - to the tune of -24.4 points per possession. The only question is if Fred will reward that loyalty or will they regret it. I still hope Fred proves me wrong.... I really do. Have a big game 7 and rest of the playoffs, and all is forgiven.

[GLF]

Nurse does need to take some blame for how he's failed to develop his bench role players. It's a season long problem that's become even worse in the playoffs. I do understand that he took a gamble and tried a new approach that was less predictable. A key objective was to allow role players a lot more freedom to make decisions on the fly, so they would be able to make plays when stars were double-teamed in the playoffs. It sounded great in theory, but I think we can all see now that this experiment was a complete failure. Role players need a tight structure and system. Whether it's Casey's role cards or Bud's system, that's what role players need.

Jeremy Lin is basically Q.E.D. proof that Nurse's system simply does not work for role players - it exposes their limitations. He was having close to a career year with Atlanta and then he comes here and looks worse than a G-Leaguer, even though he's surrounded by better places. He said he wasn't used to having that much freedom. For the most part, he simply looks confused out there. The only thing that changed were his teammates and the role/fit and system (or lack, thereof). Green mentioned a number of times about the lack of structure.

Going the other way, we saw how Delon (Mr. Triple Double) and JV (automatic 20/10) busted out in Memphis under another system. Nurse's system works for better for high IQ, highly skilled players, but even then it's not consistent on a night-to-night basis.

Couldn't agree more with this whole thing. I really hope Nurse doesn't fuck us over tomorrow night man. Our guys are going to have to hit shots to make up for the terrible rotations Nurse is bound to play. Cause the mix of Nurse and us not hitting shots will be the death of us

[Puffer]

Uh.... no. FVV is playing because they invested a lot of time and money developing him. Hell or high water.

So in a game that has a huge impact on the future of the franchise, with tens of millions of dollars of playoff money at stake, they are going to play Fred instead of someone who will help them win and possibly go on to the next two levels of playoffs and increase their chances of holding onto a superstar because Fred is getting paid more than McCaw? Or maybe I misunderstood the meaning of "they invested a lot of time and money developing him. Hell or high water." That is what you believe?

[golden]

The answer is no, it would not make even the slightest amount of sense even applying the most generous definition of the word sense.

All the guys behind FVV in the rotation are there because they are worse than him. If FVV is hurting the team, his minutes should be reduced, and replaced by increasing the minutes of the players in front of him, not throwing a worse player into the rotation.

That aside, if we were to sub someone below FVV into his spot, it would probably go McCaw, Miller, Meeks. Then Lin.

Uh.... no. FVV is playing because they invested a lot of time and money developing him. Hell or high water.

[DanH]

The answer is no, it would not make even the slightest amount of sense even applying the most generous definition of the word sense.

All the guys behind FVV in the rotation are there because they are worse than him. If FVV is hurting the team, his minutes should be reduced, and replaced by increasing the minutes of the players in front of him, not throwing a worse player into the rotation.

That aside, if we were to sub someone below FVV into his spot, it would probably go McCaw, Miller, Meeks. Then Lin.