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  • Puffer wrote: View Post
    So, serious question. What is the effect of winning an NBA Championship on individual performance? Do individual players remember their contributions, and then gain confidence from that such that they over-perform in the year following the championship? If that is true, there will be an unacknowledged positive impact on the Raptors that will stand them in good stead. Guys that were role players 2 years ago will now be Champion role players. Bit players will now remember every foul shot, three-pointer and defensive stop they got that made a difference in a 5 point game.

    Seriously, there should be a positive impact. All the new players coming to a Championship Team. Does it give them a boost? All the new players coming to a team with a rep for increasing scrub effectiveness; does it have a net positive impact? These are serious questions. We KNOW a big part of the game is mental. Do the Raptors get any kind of benefit from that? Or does Kawhi get all the credit? And everyone else coming through with outstanding performances get ignored?
    I think we see more stability. Kawhi brought that last year but prior to that, man the Lowry/DeRozan teams were not ones you really felt confident about, ever. Too many collapses, the whole squad would get rattled some games.

    I'm thinking that's mostly gone. The ceiling will be this is a pretty good team without a top 10 guy. Confidence won't be the issue.
    "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

    Comment


    • inthepaint wrote: View Post

      He showed up. Thing is he got limited/contained by Gasol (as he was for much of the series), and by a very stifling Raptors team defence, so he was inefficient on his shooting, like the article said. Doesn't always have to be about them.

      The truth is, the media desperately tries to make it about Philly every year. If they're tanking, it's about "how good they're gonna be". If they're out in the second round, it's about how close they were. If they make a trade, it's about how Al Horford is gonna make them great (as opposed to how the players they lost is gonna hurt them).

      Like, picture the Raptors as having a centre who was never able to handle a full NBA season physically + a non-shooting point guard as their top players, was just out in the second round last year, and lost 2 of their best playoff performers along the way (Jimmy Butler and JJ Redick). No one would give two shits about said team. But because it's Philly, the narrative is totally different, and they're again anointed before the games are actually played. I don't mean to say they're not a promising team, because they are, but they also smell like the "67-win Boston" of last year a bit. The could very well go far this year, but what's on paper/hyped and what actually happens on the hardwood can be quite different sometimes.

      While true, I don't think the narrative is just because it's Philly. Embiid is one of the most skilled/dominant centres of the past decade imo, and Simmons was heralded as the next big thing.

      Vince got a ton of adulation from the US media while he was here, as did Kawhi (when he wasn't managing his load). Genuine superstars will get love here. Second tier guys like Bosh and Derozan not so much. Kyle is just ornery so nobody pays him attention except Zach Lowe, and he isn't really a superstar either.
      It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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      • Scraptor wrote: View Post


        While true, I don't think the narrative is just because it's Philly. Embiid is one of the most skilled/dominant centres of the past decade imo, and Simmons was heralded as the next big thing.

        Vince got a ton of adulation from the US media while he was here, as did Kawhi (when he wasn't managing his load). Genuine superstars will get love here. Second tier guys like Bosh and Derozan not so much. Kyle is just ornery so nobody pays him attention except Zach Lowe, and he isn't really a superstar either.
        Oh yeah, I agree the media is okay when it comes to talking about how good the top guys in the league are, no matter where they play. I think their bias comes in when talking about the teams said players are in. Even while giving all the props to Vince and Kawhi individually as generational players while they were here, they never truly painted the Raptors with a real shot at a championship.

        Even when it was clear last year that the 2 best players in the East were Giannis and Kawhi, there was extreme reluctance to consider their respective teams (Milwaukee and Toronto) as true contenders for the title. There was always lots of doubting, and the conversation would invariably turn to "how about Philly and Boston?". They loved talking about Kawhi, but as in "where is he gonna be next year? Wouldn't he be great in LA?", very rarely as in "this is how he's a great fit on the Raptors. Kawhi plus that strong supporting cast make the Raptors a true championship contender"

        Even after the title, some people try to make this championship about Kawhi only, when in reality he would have won nothing if the other rotation players were anything short of stellar. In other words, if his point guard wasn't as good as Lowry (for example Pat Beverly), and his Centre wasn't as good as Gasol (for example Zubac), and he didn't have a guy like Siakam who was essentially a one-man transition machine with stellar defence, we wouldn't have won anything.

        The reality is the media wants to make it about Philly, Boston and LA, regardless of who's playing there. I think Embiid is an excellent player too, but I also think if he played for the Raptors, the media (while still recognizing he's awesome) would first and foremost question his durability and his ability to play and lead the team for a full season plus deep playoffs, therefore shitting on the Raptors chances of winning the title with him as the best player. They would immediately point out the glaring inability of Simmons to shoot, which can be easily exploited in the playoffs. They would often highlight that the team lost 2 of their best playoff performers in Redick and Butler. We're talking Philly though, so the hype is big. I'm cool with that though, I'd rather we be underrated then overrated.
        2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

        Comment


        • planetmars wrote: View Post
          There are ranges to the max.. 25%, 30% of 35%. And its dependent on how many years they've played. Some guys can get a super max... which means they can get into the next range early (but they have to qualify, and it requires things like an all-nba nod).

          Pascal is in the 25% range since he's coming off a rookie contract.

          Just like these guys:
          - Jamal Murray
          - Devin Booker
          - Andrew Wiggins

          Probably a few more I can't think of right now. He's worth the max IMO. At least that's his market value. He should make as much as a good #2 (like Murray or Booker). He's not a super star, but he's not making the 35% max either. That will be Kawhi's goal in 2 years (for example).

          I think we should try to tie him up for 5 years. Unless he has a significant injury he should always be on a tradeable contract. He's a 2-way player which is hard to find in the NBA.
          Keep in mind, Pascal may make an all-NBA team this year (maybe not but there's a chance). So there's a high likelihood his agent is asking for any max deal he signs to include wording that it scales up to 30% if he makes the all-NBA teams.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

          Comment


          • So we got some respect from the 538 guys.. they created a new model (replacing their CARMELO one) called RAPTOR.

            https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...he-modern-nba/

            At FiveThirtyEight, we’ve been running NBA predictions since 2015. We started with Elo ratings before introducing our CARMELO player projection system, which we then incorporated into our “CARM-Elo” season prediction model. We tested and tweaked the prediction model over the years, but it was always powered by metrics from other sources, such as Box Plus/Minus (BPM) and Real Plus-Minus (RPM).

            But that changes this year. RAPTOR, which stands for Robust Algorithm (using) Player Tracking (and) On/Off Ratings, is FiveThirtyEight’s new NBA statistic. We’re pretty excited about it. In addition to being a statistic that we bake in house, RAPTOR fulfills two long-standing goals of ours:
            • First, we wanted to create a publicly available statistic that takes advantage of modern NBA data, specifically player tracking and play-by-play data that isn’t available in traditional box scores.
            • Second, and relatedly, we wanted a statistic that better reflects how modern NBA teams actually evaluate players.
            RAPTOR’s name (in addition to being a whimsical backronym in the tradition of CARMELO and DRAYMOND) honors the 2018-19 Toronto Raptors, which FiveThirtyEight’s previous projection system correctly predicted had an edge over the Golden State Warriors (even though we didn’t fully believe the projection ourselves at the time).

            Comment


            • planetmars wrote: View Post
              So we got some respect from the 538 guys.. they created a new model (replacing their CARMELO one) called RAPTOR.

              https://fivethirtyeight.com/features...he-modern-nba/



              I like the 2nd quote, gives us props and makes sure to sneak in some shameless (and deserved) self promotion
              It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

              Comment


              • Maury wrote: View Post

                What you're saying is we shouldn't pay him and watch him leave because of a damaged relationship.

                It's a MARKET. His value is determined not by what he has done but by what someone is willing to pay him. It's literally that simple. It's honestly offensive how much you push this when you clearly haven't thought about it for more than 30 seconds.
                STFU about offensive. Climb outta your bubble for a bit and look at what I'm saying.

                Its not just this signing, its all pro sports now. Its ridiculous.

                Comment


                • 2019/2020
                  The Defenders.
















                  IS IT TIME YET?

                  Comment


                  • Puffer wrote: View Post
                    So, serious question. What is the effect of winning an NBA Championship on individual performance? Do individual players remember their contributions, and then gain confidence from that such that they over-perform in the year following the championship? If that is true, there will be an unacknowledged positive impact on the Raptors that will stand them in good stead. Guys that were role players 2 years ago will now be Champion role players. Bit players will now remember every foul shot, three-pointer and defensive stop they got that made a difference in a 5 point game.

                    Seriously, there should be a positive impact. All the new players coming to a Championship Team. Does it give them a boost? All the new players coming to a team with a rep for increasing scrub effectiveness; does it have a net positive impact? These are serious questions. We KNOW a big part of the game is mental. Do the Raptors get any kind of benefit from that? Or does Kawhi get all the credit? And everyone else coming through with outstanding performances get ignored?
                    There is a big psychological component to sports that is hard to quantify but is absolutely real and meaningful and manifests itself in a lot of different ways. I think that going through and winning a championship at the very least informs how players prepare and approach following seasons.

                    As a new guy coming in or a rookie I think you are definitely more prepared to listen and take criticism from guys who have won and you definitely are prepared to work harder. You also know there is a certain standard and that winning is expected, which can have a big impact, especially on young players/rookies. The Raptors environment will be far different from Phoenix, for example. There, young guys know they will play and no one cares if they lose. Everything is chalked up to growing pains. Young guys in Toronto are expected to perform and produce. If people don't think that difference has a big impact then I don't know what to tell them.

                    Comment


                    • Well, there it is... out in the open. The dis-respect and anti-Toronto bias is real. Have at it, Demo...

                      NBA Pushed To Keep Raptors On Opening Night, Christmas
                      https://basketball.realgm.com/wireta...ight-Christmas

                      The NBA wanted the Toronto Raptors to appear on national television more frequently during the 19-20 season than either ESPN or TNT would have preferred.

                      The NBA insisted on having the Raptors appear on their Christmas Day schedule along with opening night as the defending champions.

                      The NBA doesn't air on ESPN and TNT in Canada, which deflates the ratings for Raptors' games.

                      “What a lot of people like to cling to is because the Raptors don’t play in the United States, it makes them ratings challenged,” said senior vice president of programing for Turner Sports Scooter Vertino. “But my argument would be they’re a compelling team and they play a great and exciting brand of basketball, and to me, maybe we can flip it and say, ‘Maybe we can open some more eyes here that weren’t going to watch in the first place. They’re on this platform for a reason.’"
                      Scary thing is that ratings influences sponsorship advertising (e.g. shoe ads), which influences which markets top free agents choose. The NBA needs to do something in the salary cap to off-set the effect of preferred markets, from a sponsorship or tax advantage point-of-view.

                      Last edited by golden; Mon Oct 21st, 2019, 12:22 PM.

                      Comment


                      • slaw wrote: View Post

                        There is a big psychological component to sports that is hard to quantify but is absolutely real and meaningful and manifests itself in a lot of different ways. I think that going through and winning a championship at the very least informs how players prepare and approach following seasons.

                        As a new guy coming in or a rookie I think you are definitely more prepared to listen and take criticism from guys who have won and you definitely are prepared to work harder. You also know there is a certain standard and that winning is expected, which can have a big impact, especially on young players/rookies. The Raptors environment will be far different from Phoenix, for example. There, young guys know they will play and no one cares if they lose. Everything is chalked up to growing pains. Young guys in Toronto are expected to perform and produce. If people don't think that difference has a big impact then I don't know what to tell them.
                        Great answer. You always hear about the mental component of the game. I know that personally, my game is all over the place, and not for obvious physical reasons. Focus and confidence are huge in the mental aspect. Going through the process of winning the Larry OB has to impact both areas for those that went through it. And this year, the young fellas get to hear how important continuous consistent effort and focus are. Watching the returning vets should also give them confidence as they see how the guys calmly go about their business, not getting too high, and not getting too low.

                        Comment


                        • slaw wrote: View Post

                          There is a big psychological component to sports that is hard to quantify but is absolutely real and meaningful and manifests itself in a lot of different ways. I think that going through and winning a championship at the very least informs how players prepare and approach following seasons.

                          As a new guy coming in or a rookie I think you are definitely more prepared to listen and take criticism from guys who have won and you definitely are prepared to work harder. You also know there is a certain standard and that winning is expected, which can have a big impact, especially on young players/rookies. The Raptors environment will be far different from Phoenix, for example. There, young guys know they will play and no one cares if they lose. Everything is chalked up to growing pains. Young guys in Toronto are expected to perform and produce. If people don't think that difference has a big impact then I don't know what to tell them.
                          Meh. There will be temporary boost to overall confidence, but alot of that "championship DNA" eventually peters out a year or so after the true superstar leaves. Look at the Cavs and Heat after Lebron left. Or even the Spurs after Duncan left. What separates champions from pretenders are the superstars who can rise to the occasion in those high leverage moments when the outcome of the game or even the season is in the balance. The toughest series we had was vs. the Sixers and Kawhi was clearly the difference while the rest of the team went AWOL. Kawhi was also the difference when he started guarding Giannis in the Bucks series.

                          Sure, the Raps are still going to be a good-to-great team. But we're also going to go back to being what we were before .... a really good team that shrinks in the moment. That said, we still have a punchers chance because there's no Lebronto boogeyman in the East anymore.

                          Comment


                          • Thats the question though, will they shrink or has last years triumph changed anything for those so-called shrinkers? I don't think this team will be so easy to dispatch as Lebron was consistently able to do, and i think winning one will have something to do with that. But how do we determine that? The eye test may ultimately be the only reliable way to judge it but losing a playoff series may not indicate shrinkage. We may just come up against a better team, which seems highly likely unless a major addition is forthcoming. We arent expected to win it all so how far does the team need to go to dispel any ideas of shrinkage? I tend to think that things changed a bit with demar's departure, but its hard to say cause kawhi came in and led the team in a way demar couldnt. But im giving kyle and the boys the benefit of the doubt and i guess we'll have to wait until the playoffs roll around before we get the chance to figure it out.

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                            • #WeTheNorth is still on a roll. lol.

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                              • Good for the Nats but I don't buy the Montreal connection whatsoever any longer.

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