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  • There a pretty big difference between paying a record setting tax bill to bring back Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson than to bring back Norman Powell. I like Powell too but I think if Kawhi stays they will look to save a few bucks somewhere. As Dan noted a few bucks meaning $45 million for like your 10th man

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    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

      Your sucking and blowing here..

      Your saying “this is what you hope they do” while giving a POV that says go cheap.

      This is why finance gets a vote on tabled plans but is never involved in constructing growth strategies.
      That's not fair DS. 2 of the troika here are reps of publicly owned cos. with boards that they are accountable to. Tannenbaum is the single sole proprietor here (I think). This in comparison to Lacob & Guber and of course that rat Stevens who each are independently wealthy with a combined net worth according to "internet" info of about 7 Bs.Tanenbaum's bankroll is noted as 1.5 B (hope that is US funds). Total wealth tends to have an effect on strategy and methods. Lacob was a Perkins/Kleiner fellow of the very successful venture capitalist group and so is Stevens a VC type. These guys dont play by the same rules as Canadian bros. I dont think... at least the ones in charge of the Raptors.

      Comment


      • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
        There a pretty big difference between paying a record setting tax bill to bring back Kevin Durant and Klay Thompson than to bring back Norman Powell. I like Powell too but I think if Kawhi stays they will look to save a few bucks somewhere. As Dan noted a few bucks meaning $45 million for like your 10th man
        Rudy B.... Its not Norm Powell thats driving that 190M$ number with his 11M$ AAV. Its Kawhi and Kyle and Serge and Marc.
        You get what you pay for.

        For all the same reasons you don't bitch about buying or sellling a house at 800K vs 790K if its the place or price you want....the same holds true with the peripheral pieces on the raps roster. If your prepared to pay 180M$ to stay relevant .. why not 190M$ ?

        Ownership views the issue much differently than the accountants do.
        There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
        - TGO

        Comment


        • KeonClark wrote: View Post

          My friend is practically what you would call a professional e scalper. My stepdad asked isnt that illegal?

          I said no it's not.. but I really couldn't provide a good argument as to why
          Because Rogers/Bell/owners actually get a cut of the reseller market. They acually hope that every ticket is sold for 10X face value on Ticketmaster etc as they make more money and it's sad and pathetic for fans.

          Comment


          • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

            Rudy B.... Its not Norm Powell thats driving that 190M$ number with his 11M$ AAV. Its Kawhi and Kyle and Serge and Marc.
            You get what you pay for.

            For all the same reasons you don't bitch about buying or sellling a house at 800K vs 790K if its the place or price you want....the same holds true with the peripheral pieces on the raps roster. If your prepared to pay 180M$ to stay relevant .. why not 190M$ ?

            Ownership views the issue much differently than the accountants do.
            Thing is, and dan can correct me if I'm wrong, but that extra 10 million ends up being like 30 million because it enters us into another tax bracket

            and then when you consider you can probably replace Norms playoff production with a healthy OG anunoby, still on his rookie deal

            and its not solely just a cost cutting move, never underestimate masai to swindle picks or prospects from a team tired of missing the playoffs. This next year makes 2 straight years of no first round picks coming in, the cupboard needs some filling, all 30 franchises have a desire for young talent coming up the pipeline
            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

            Comment


            • Yup..it’s not 190 it’s 235. That’s like your 790 or 800k house costing 960k, a bigger difference. And if you’re 10th man costs 40 million 20% of your payroll+tax it’s like putting a $175,000 bathroom in a 960k house. Maybe someone will pay it but you’ll probably ask yourself if you can get away without it or spending a less and still having the same nice house (team).

              Comment


              • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                Your sucking and blowing here..

                Your saying “this is what you hope they do” while giving a POV that says go cheap.

                This is why finance gets a vote on tabled plans but is never involved in constructing growth strategies.
                What? No, this is me hoping within reason rather than blindly saying "spend all the moneys!"

                As a completely biased fan who cares not for the bottom line, I hope they spend way too much and I get to watch the best team possible.

                As a reasonable person, when setting my expectations for this summer, I take into account the realities of the situation and frame my expectations as appropriate - that is, I understand that my totally biased fan ideal scenario simply will not come to pass.

                It's the same reason why I told people Bismack Biyombo would quite simply not be re-signing in summer 2016. Sure, we can all say "do it" but various realities prevent it. The realities now are taxes and not cap rules, but the reality is much the same. It ain't happening.
                twitter.com/dhackett1565

                Comment


                • Bendit wrote: View Post

                  That's not fair DS. 2 of the troika here are reps of publicly owned cos. with boards that they are accountable to. Tannenbaum is the single sole proprietor here (I think). This in comparison to Lacob & Guber and of course that rat Stevens who each are independently wealthy with a combined net worth according to "internet" info of about 7 Bs.Tanenbaum's bankroll is noted as 1.5 B (hope that is US funds). Total wealth tends to have an effect on strategy and methods. Lacob was a Perkins/Kleiner fellow of the very successful venture capitalist group and so is Stevens a VC type. These guys dont play by the same rules as Canadian bros. I dont think... at least the ones in charge of the Raptors.
                  It is fair.
                  Larry T owns 25% and rogers and bell split the other 75% evenly. Rogers and Bell are full corporate.. Larry on the other hand works differently. By and large he has been left by the majority partners to run the franchise as he sees fit. He is not a VC but he does like to be interviewed in the lead car in a victory parade. I'd venture so does George Cope who played ball at Western might also like to hang out with a team that is world champs in the game he played in school ... I'd say so far so good on moving past being small town cheap.

                  So heres the case

                  The Tax Apron where you don't pay tax is 135M$. No way they get under that if Leonard resigns and Gasol opts in. So your going to pay a tax to keep the band together to win one more. Who got better in the East that makes the Raps an afterthought after they sign Kawhi. No one.

                  The Raps projected salary hit next year has been pegged somewhere around 200M$ if they keep everyone including Green and Gasol and Norm and Serge and Kyle and get Kaawhis name on a contract for however long they decide on between them.

                  So those two guys Cope and Tannebaum who are genetically disposed to winning are just not going to listen to accounting and dump Norm and save 15$M or so on a 200M$ bill. I really don't know the exact figure... But what I do know is that its not that big a material difference for one year if you shell out 185M or 200M as a one time cost. In one years time salvage value kicks in and if they come up short they can alleviate the hurt as the combined weight of close to 75M comes off the balance sheet as the contracts of Lowry/Serge and Marc are done as is the luxury tax.
                  . .
                  So to the guys who say gas Norm or Serge or Danny or whomever ... they think small.
                  You only get so many chances at the championship and to lessen that chance for 15$M is just so accounting.
                  There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                  - TGO

                  Comment


                  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                    Rudy B.... Its not Norm Powell thats driving that 190M$ number with his 11M$ AAV. Its Kawhi and Kyle and Serge and Marc.
                    You get what you pay for.

                    For all the same reasons you don't bitch about buying or sellling a house at 800K vs 790K if its the place or price you want....the same holds true with the peripheral pieces on the raps roster. If your prepared to pay 180M$ to stay relevant .. why not 190M$ ?

                    Ownership views the issue much differently than the accountants do.
                    It's not 180M vs 190M. It's 190M vs 235M.

                    Precisely because of your first sentence. The guys they really want to pay and really have to pay (Kawhi, Lowry, Gasol) - right there, you're going to have to pay heavy tax. That's where the 190M scenario comes in. And everyone is fine with that. But if you can move off expensive role players who don't impact the team's chances as much as those guys, it's a totally different discussion. And it's not moving those guys off for kicks - it's moving them off so you can keep Danny Green and stick to that 190M price tag.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

                    Comment


                    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                      It is fair.
                      Larry T owns 25% and rogers and bell split the other 75% evenly. Rogers and Bell are full corporate.. Larry on the other hand works differently. By and large he has been left by the majority partners to run the franchise as he sees fit. He is not a VC but he does like to be interviewed in the lead car in a victory parade. I'd venture so does George Cope who played ball at Western might also like to hang out with a team that is world champs in the game he played in school ... I'd say so far so good on moving past being small town cheap.

                      So heres the case

                      The Tax Apron where you don't pay tax is 135M$. No way they get under that if Leonard resigns and Gasol opts in. So your going to pay a tax to keep the band together to win one more. Who got better in the East that makes the Raps an afterthought after they sign Kawhi. No one.

                      The Raps projected salary hit next year has been pegged somewhere around 200M$ if they keep everyone including Green and Gasol and Norm and Serge and Kyle and get Kaawhis name on a contract for however long they decide on between them.

                      So those two guys Cope and Tannebaum who are genetically disposed to winning are just not going to listen to accounting and dump Norm and save 15$M or so on a 200M$ bill. I really don't know the exact figure... But what I do know is that its not that big a material difference for one year if you shell out 185M or 200M as a one time cost. In one years time salvage value kicks in and if they come up short they can alleviate the hurt as the combined weight of close to 75M comes off the balance sheet as the contracts of Lowry/Serge and Marc are done as is the luxury tax.
                      . .
                      So to the guys who say gas Norm or Serge or Danny or whomever ... they think small.
                      You only get so many chances at the championship and to lessen that chance for 15$M is just so accounting.
                      Geez dude how many times do I need to type $45M before it gets through that shedding a $10M contract saves the team $45M.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                        Yup..it’s not 190 it’s 235. That’s like your 790 or 800k house costing 960k, a bigger difference. And if you’re 10th man costs 40 million 20% of your payroll+tax it’s like putting a $175,000 bathroom in a 960k house. Maybe someone will pay it but you’ll probably ask yourself if you can get away without it or spending a less and still having the same nice house (team).
                        I believe your inflating your numbers Rudy.
                        AND
                        You get what you pay for.

                        There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                        - TGO

                        Comment


                        • DanH wrote: View Post

                          Geez dude how many times do I need to type $45M before it gets through that shedding a $10M contract saves the team $45M.
                          And how many times are you not getting that being small town cheap never works.

                          Dude.
                          There's no such thing as a 2nd round bust.
                          - TGO

                          Comment


                          • Even the mighty warriors of silicon valley started shedding talent. Harrison barnes was a casualty, I dont remember the Bogut circumstances but he was never full replaced..same with Barbosa.. etc

                            what golden state did was decide they had the core 5 and also kept Livingston and the bench stable, and filled the fringes with cheap vets and a great ability to bring in rookies with later picks

                            norm is no different to the Barbosas and barnes'. You could deduce that he is replaceable for a championship drive. You might as well do it well his value is high, because theres more cap fun to come when siakam and OG need extensions
                            9 time first team all-RR, First Ballot Hall of Forum

                            Comment


                            • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                              And how many times are you not getting that being small town cheap never works.

                              Dude.
                              Did you not follow the team this year? Do you not remember the pile of small town cheap moves they made at the deadline? They shed like 20M in taxes by dumping minimum salaries and signing rest-of-season contracts, and they paid a few picks to do it. They even got Gasol to waive his trade bonus to reduce the tax hit of that deal.

                              Now I'm having a hard time remembering if that small town cheap team found any success in the playoffs this year... Just, can't recall.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • Masai doing those mid season salary cutting moves should buy him some good faith with ownership in spending some more $ next season
                                To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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