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  • Maury wrote: View Post
    I would push hard for Beal. Really good two-way player and he fits with Pascal on the floor and age-wise.
    Agree, I think any deal that didn't involve Siakam on our end, or Wall on their end, you do it. Of course that's exactly what the Wizards would be looking for though, so if we didn't send Siakam or absorbed Wall it would probably have to be heavy on the picks side and possibly Fred and/or OG, which I think Masai could swing.

    A trio of Siakam + Beal + another solid 2021 FA (like Gobert or CJ McCollum) + the up & coming youth the Raptors will be simmering over the next 2 seasons, man, that would be ECF/finals material.

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    • thead wrote: View Post
      I'll tell you my personal bar for retiring a Jersey and why your favorite people are disqualified (relax I don't work for MLSE)

      Vince Carter - Great, one of the greatest reasons basketball exploded in Canada - Jersey Retirement? No Why? Loyalty, Heart, No Chip

      Chris Bosh - Great, one of the greatest reasons basketball exploded in Canada - Jersey Retirement? No Why? Loyalty/joined Super Team, No Chip

      DeMar DeRozan - Great, one of the most loyal hard working dudes ever - Jersey Retirement? No Why? No Chip

      Kawhi Leonard - Greatest guy to every play for Toronto. Gave me memories that will last a lifetime - Jersey Retirement? No Why? He left

      Kyle Lowry - Kicked all kinds of ass. Won a chip and has been the emotional leader of the team for 7 years. Jersey Retirement? Yes
      So it's championship or bust?

      Iverson's number is retired in Philly. Nash's and Barkley's numbers are retired in Phoenix. Miller's number is retired in Indiana. Ewing's number is retired in NY. I can go on and on.

      IMO, teams should retire the greatest and most important players in their franchise history. Lowry is a no brainer. Kawhi, VC and DeRozan are all no brainers as well.

      Mamba Mentality

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      • The Great One wrote: View Post

        So it's championship or bust?

        Iverson's number is retired in Philly. Nash's and Barkley's numbers are retired in Phoenix. Miller's number is retired in Indiana. Ewing's number is retired in NY. I can go on and on.

        IMO, teams should retire the greatest and most important players in their franchise history. Lowry is a no brainer. Kawhi, VC and DeRozan are all no brainers as well.
        The guys you mentioned are mostly MVP calibre players and first ballot Hall of Famers. They're a full tier (or two) ahead of DD and all did more on-court than VC ever did here. VC was really popular and got to the second round. That's it.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          If the Wiz are trying to dump Wall's salary as a condition to get Beal then the Raps are in as good (or better) position than any team to absorb that this year. If Wall actually recovers to 90% of what he was, then that salary can still be traded (e.g. Lakers, Suns,...). Masai has worked miracles with a lot worse. Really hope that Pascal can hold off on the extension until next year and not take the QO - that gives us a lot more flexibility next off-season.
          The only issue with this is Beal's contract is up in 2 years and Wall's goes another 2 years longer, and there has been friction between the two in the past... It's not a Kyle and DeMar situation.

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          • S.R. wrote: View Post

            The guys you mentioned are mostly MVP calibre players and first ballot Hall of Famers. They're a full tier (or two) ahead of DD and all did more on-court than VC ever did here. VC was really popular and got to the second round. That's it.
            Iverson is not a full tier (or two) above DD and would not have made the HoF if he played today. Modern analytics would expose AI badly as a rich man's Monta Ellis. Just checked AI's numbers again: multiple 101 ORTGs and a 96 ORTG (wtf!) in his prime All-Star years. Holy.... that's disgusting.

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            • Beal is not a superstar level guy that you sell anything to pair with Siakam.

              If you can get him for a decent price (expiring vet, mid-level prospect - OG, Powell, FVV, and one first rounder) sure. If you are paying a king's ransom you are making a mistake.

              He's a tremendous offensive player, who is indeed quite bad defensively, and isn't locked in long term on a cheap deal. You'd be paying him max money on his next deal. Which is worth it if you haven't paid too heavy a price to get him and can still dabble in free agency in the meantime and build a team around him and Siakam. But selling the farm for a guy like him just puts you back where the Raptors were with DeRozan and Lowry - except with less depth.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • John Wall's best attribute was his explosiveness in getting to the rim. With a ruptured Achilles.... You might end up with a guy who doesn't play defense, can't shoot and lost that athleticism. That ends up being the worst contract in basketball.

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                • DanH wrote: View Post
                  Beal is not a superstar level guy that you sell anything to pair with Siakam.

                  If you can get him for a decent price (expiring vet, mid-level prospect - OG, Powell, FVV, and one first rounder) sure. If you are paying a king's ransom you are making a mistake.

                  He's a tremendous offensive player, who is indeed quite bad defensively, and isn't locked in long term on a cheap deal. You'd be paying him max money on his next deal. Which is worth it if you haven't paid too heavy a price to get him and can still dabble in free agency in the meantime and build a team around him and Siakam. But selling the farm for a guy like him just puts you back where the Raptors were with DeRozan and Lowry - except with less depth.
                  Circling back to this, the point I meant to make is that ideally Beal is the sort of guy you just sign in FA. Yes, you overpay in dollars compared to his value, but by just using cap space you retain all those other assets and depth pieces that make him being one of your top guys more viable.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • Any word on if they are going to offer Siakam and extension? What sort of $$ is he going to command in free agency?

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                    • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                      Any word on if they are going to offer Siakam and extension? What sort of $$ is he going to command in free agency?
                      Someone would probably offer him the max, and Raptors would match.

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                      • Mitchell Duong wrote: View Post

                        Someone would probably offer him the max, and Raptors would match.
                        I have a hard time seeing him as a max contract player. I mean he looked great next to Kawhi, but I don't see him as "the man" on his own team....yet. He's like Tobias Harris, a good complimentary player, but not a max contract guy.

                        I wonder if it is more beneficial to extend him before the season starts like what they did with DeRozan or let him test free agency to see what offers he gets.

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                        • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                          I have a hard time seeing him as a max contract player. I mean he looked great next to Kawhi, but I don't see him as "the man" on his own team....yet. He's like Tobias Harris, a good complimentary player, but not a max contract guy.

                          I wonder if it is more beneficial to extend him before the season starts like what they did with DeRozan or let him test free agency to see what offers he gets.
                          Max guys are not necessarily "the guy" on their team. Teams tend to have two or even three max contract guys. Especially since there are three different "max" salaries, and Siakam is eligible for the lowest of them.

                          Certainly if they can get him extended for less than the max, it sure looks like they are going to punt at least a lot of their 2020 cap room and aim for 2021, so it would make loads of sense to try to get him locked in (if they can get 5/140 with the low point in 2021, that would be pretty good). The only real reasons to wait for next summer would be a) they plan on using 2020 cap room and want to be able to operate with Siakam at his low cap hold, or b) they think Siakam is going to significantly disappoint this year, and as such his price will drop in FA. But you have to think it would need to be a precipitous drop for him not to be a RFA overpay target for one team or another.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • Siakam would have a terrible agent if he can't get Siakam anything other than the max. He's the reigning MIP and did great in the playoffs/finals. You can't really ask for more than that.

                            If Masai has a plan for 2020 than he won't extend him. If he's going to defer to the 2021 class than he should lock him up now. I guess we'll see which way he leans by September. He's got time to extend him.

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                            • As for Beal.. I don't think they move him until they get a president/gm in place. Like New Orleans did with Griffin. So it might take some time for that trade to happen.

                              He's not a game changer.. top 10 type of guy. But I don't see a top 10 guy available anytime soon. Plus the price tag is now at least 5 picks and some pick swaps with a prospect or two. It's heavy.

                              I'd go after Beal because we need offense, and a SG. He fits the team and the future. I don't have confidence he'll stay after 2021 though. But we have all our picks and most teams (like Miami) don't.

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                              • planetmars wrote: View Post
                                Siakam would have a terrible agent if he can't get Siakam anything other than the max. He's the reigning MIP and did great in the playoffs/finals. You can't really ask for more than that.

                                If Masai has a plan for 2020 than he won't extend him. If he's going to defer to the 2021 class than he should lock him up now. I guess we'll see which way he leans by September. He's got time to extend him.
                                And Masai has tended to do his extensions later in the summer, JV was late August IIRC and Ross and Powell were both training camp extensions I think.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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