2014 off-season Compendium

[007]

i'm all in

Me too, but I don't think it will happen.

[Raptorsnz]

Agreed - HOU will want to get him locked in to be safe, and if they are going to be able to use cap space, it'll have to be this summer in that case.

HOU wants to clear Asik and Lin from their cap - if they drop them, they can decline Parsons' option, let him go to restricted free agency, use their cap space to sign a big name player (they're close to the cap now, and could clear up to 16M by dropping the two, as well as more like 30M in actual cost), and then re-up Parsons for whatever he wants.

So, since this coming season is going to be a bit of a holding pattern anyway, might as well help them out.

At the draft...
HOU sends:
Asik (8.4M), Lin (8.4M), 1st HOU 2014 [total 17.3M]

TOR sends:
Salmons (7.6M), Hansbrough (3.2M), Novak (3.75M) [total 14.6M]

TOR is close to the tax, so they can receive back their outgoing salary plus 25%, plus 100k.

So the deal works financially.

The effects:

HOU: Shed 16.7M in guaranteed salary this summer, take on only 5.75M in guaranteed salary. That's 11.0M in salary cap savings (assuming they waive TH and JS, which obviously they would), putting them 10.9M below the cap after extending Parsons his QO. Meanwhile, Novak's the sort of guy that would fit great on that team. Also saves them close to 25M in actual salary costs.

TOR: The opposite - take on 16.7M in guaranteed salary, while clearing Novak from the 2015 cap. That leaves TOR with 54.0M committed to 8 players, 1 draft pick, with 3 or 4 key signings to come. That means 20M before hitting the tax. Should be enough to get Vasquez, Patterson and Lowry re-signed. Can always go into the tax if need be. Very costly move in terms of actual dollars, but this is the sort of thing that deep-pocketed owners like MLSE can pull off that a lot of other teams can't.

Means no free agency moves, of course. Improvement on the wing would have to come from our two 1st rounders (possibly packaged for a move upwards?). PG would be stacked (you'd have to think a Lin trade would follow - Lin to LAL for Nash+pick?), and we'd have our backup C.

In the meantime, the Raps have 36M in expiring contracts going into next season between Asik, Lin, Amir, Fields and Hayes, for a potential blockbuster at the deadline. And if no move is made, even after re-upping Lowry, Patterson, Vasquez, they are looking at 20+ M in cap space in 2015.

Have you seen Asik this season? He's spent 80% of it on the bench looking depressed. We'd only be able to offer him around 20 minutes a game probably, and he wants to be a starter so I don't see that going well at all, especially since at the moment the chemistry of the team is one of the best strengths we have.

Plus I couldn't handle the consistent arguments in the clutch about Asik playing instead of JV (which he probably would).

[white men can't jump]

Have you seen Asik this season? He's spent 80% of it on the bench looking depressed. We'd only be able to offer him around 20 minutes a game probably, and he wants to be a starter so I don't see that going well at all, especially since at the moment the chemistry of the team is one of the best strengths we have.

Plus I couldn't handle the consistent arguments in the clutch about Asik playing instead of JV (which he probably would).

I agree about this specific scenario.

But I also agree that this type of scenario is the best way for the Raps to try and nab an extra pick in this year's 1st round. Something where they can immediately alleviate cap pressure for a team.

[Primer]

I interpret no crazy moves to be no trading of the core guys: JV, TR, DD, KL, PP, GV, AJ.

Hansbrough, Salmons, and Novak aren't what I'd consider core.

What the deal with Atlanta doesn't do is allow for Houston to be a free agent player (edit: Actually, it does, my bad, but rest stands). Also, do you really think Atlanta is going to pay Asik and Lin $30M combined? Because that is what they are owed despite just having an $8.4M cap hit each.

I can only base my opinions on what I read through HoopsHype.com daily. What I know is that Morey failed miserably to hype up the value of Asik around Christmas (remember all the 'deadlines' and the 'trade on the table waiting for better offers before pulling the trigger?'). Plus everyone in the league knows for Morey to be a free agent player he needs to lose contracts.

We'll see what happens but my only point was I hope the Raps acquire long term assets since they aren't going to be free agent players this year anyways.

Atlanta wouldn't want Lin. I never said they would. I proposed a trade of Asik to Atlanta that returned Houston way better value than our proposed trade. It doesn't make sense at all for Houston to package Lin and Asik together for the exact reason you noted, it's $30M fucking dollars. Plus not every team that has need for a starting center has need for a PG, and vice versa. And to even further it, Asik is really valuable, and Lin is of questionable value. The only reason they were put together is because that's the way DanH proposed it.

If they wanted to give us a first for taking Lin off their hands I'd consider it, but I still think they could find a better deal without having to sacrifice a draft pick.

[007]

We already have a starting center and two above average PGs

[mcHAPPY]

Atlanta wouldn't want Lin. I never said they would. I proposed a trade of Asik to Atlanta that returned Houston way better value than our proposed trade. It doesn't make sense at all for Houston to package Lin and Asik together for the exact reason you noted, it's $30M fucking dollars. Plus not every team that has need for a starting center has need for a PG, and vice versa. And to even further it, Asik is really valuable, and Lin is of questionable value. The only reason they were put together is because that's the way DanH proposed it.

If they wanted to give us a first for taking Lin off their hands I'd consider it, but I still think they could find a better deal without having to sacrifice a draft pick.

I need to read better.

[bryan colangelo]

Me too, but I don't think it will happen.

Ugh. Would Asik and Lin really put us over the top? I haven't watched Asik's game enough.

NVM: I mis-read the post.

[phiLLy]

I think people need to understand, that the HOU trade, is simply to nab another first round pick, for players that we won't be using anyways, to help clear off the books.

Novak/Hands/Salmons aren't core. We nab another 1st Rounder in 2014, albeit nothing too high, but it's still another 1st Rounder in a good draft.

On top of that, I believe Asik and Lin are expirings? That essentially leaves us with Fields/Asik/Lin as all expirings, and only Hayes left that's going to drain the cap.

Asik and Lin can still be decent players. Whether Asik is happy or not, he's still productive, would help fill in the Reserve C role, never hurts. And Lin...well, it'd be for some marketing, to get an Asian Player into Canada I guess, lol.

Could be simply used as extra trade-bait. Rockets seem to be cheap, and clearly Asik/Lin arne't part of their future, so save some money? I don't see why not. I don't think a low 1st Round Pick is going to help them anyways, they'd rather sign another big name FA.

[Primer]

I think people need to understand, that the HOU trade, is simply to nab another first round pick, for players that we won't be using anyways, to help clear off the books.

Novak/Hands/Salmons aren't core. We nab another 1st Rounder in 2014, albeit nothing too high, but it's still another 1st Rounder in a good draft.

On top of that, I believe Asik and Lin are expirings? That essentially leaves us with Fields/Asik/Lin as all expirings, and only Hayes left that's going to drain the cap.

Asik and Lin can still be decent players. Whether Asik is happy or not, he's still productive, would help fill in the Reserve C role, never hurts. And Lin...well, it'd be for some marketing, to get an Asian Player into Canada I guess, lol.

Could be simply used as extra trade-bait. Rockets seem to be cheap, and clearly Asik/Lin arne't part of their future, so save some money? I don't see why not. I don't think a low 1st Round Pick is going to help them anyways, they'd rather sign another big name FA.

I fully understand that. But I think it is preposterous to think Houston would trade Asik, Lin, and a 1st round pick for our pile of hot garbage. If Houston would do that trade then we should pull the trigger and throw a fucking party. Yes, we'll gladly take your defensive stalwart starting caliber center and a 1st round pick for Hansbrough, Salmons, and Novak. C'mon...........

[planetmars]

I fully understand that. But I think it is preposterous to think Houston would trade Asik, Lin, and a 1st round pick for our pile of hot garbage. If Houston would do that trade then we should pull the trigger and throw a fucking party. Yes, we'll gladly take your defensive stalwart starting caliber center and a 1st round pick for Hansbrough, Salmons, and Novak. C'mon...........

It probably won't happen.. but it's not about the players its about the money.

Houston would be trading $17M in salary cap ($30M in salary) for $5.5M in salary cap ($1M each for Salmons and Psycho-T as their guaranteed salaries, and $3.5M for Novak).

For the price of business, Houston includes pick #25.

With that extra $12M in cap space they could get a max contract like Carmelo for example or splurge on players like Deng or Hayward.

[BobLoblaw]

I think people need to understand, that the HOU trade, is simply to nab another first round pick, for players that we won't be using anyways, to help clear off the books.

Novak/Hands/Salmons aren't core. We nab another 1st Rounder in 2014, albeit nothing too high, but it's still another 1st Rounder in a good draft.

On top of that, I believe Asik and Lin are expirings? That essentially leaves us with Fields/Asik/Lin as all expirings, and only Hayes left that's going to drain the cap.

Asik and Lin can still be decent players. Whether Asik is happy or not, he's still productive, would help fill in the Reserve C role, never hurts. And Lin...well, it'd be for some marketing, to get an Asian Player into Canada I guess, lol.

Could be simply used as extra trade-bait. Rockets seem to be cheap, and clearly Asik/Lin arne't part of their future, so save some money? I don't see why not. I don't think a low 1st Round Pick is going to help them anyways, they'd rather sign another big name FA.

I never thought of the Rockets as cheap. They've mostly stayed under tax, but their owner doesn't mind paying some millions now and then for some extra second round picks (which few owners do), and in general they among pioneers in various developments, which doesn't just happen without money, they pay an army of stats people, they were one of the first teams to start spending on D-League staff.

They are a well run organization that values flexibility and cap space but they don't seem cheap.

In general, that trade is indeed mostly tailored for a cheap team that wants to save cash. If the Rockets aren't cheap and place priority on assets and don't mind losing some cash, then they can keep that pick and still sign that big name FA.

That particular trade doesn't give them as much cap space as one would think, only a couple mil more more than they'd get by waiving players.

[thead]

it may come off as a lot of teams being cheap but I think in reality, they are all waiting until they get close, seeing exactly what they need and then going over. Doesn't make sense to be a rebuilding tax team.

[DanH]

I think the critiques - especially that HOU isn't saving enough cap space, and is giving up on Asik too easily, since they consider him an asset - are valid.

Here's an attempt to fix that. Bring LAL into the fold. They want to build a contender for Kobe, and fast, but also want to be able to make an offer on a superstar in 2015/2016. Nash is doing nothing for them, except eating up 10M in cap space this summer.

So:

HOU out:
Lin (8.4M)
HOU in:
Salmons (7.6M)

LAL out:
Nash (9.3M), 1st LAL 2015 (top 10 protected, trade consummated after Lakers pick at draft) LAL in:
Lin (8.4M)

TOR out:
Salmons (7.6M)
TOR in:
Nash (9.3M), LAL 1st 2015

Lakers clear 1M in cap space and get a starting PG for this year at the cost of a protected future pick and cash (which I hear they use as toilet paper in LA), while leaving their 2015 cap wide open.

Houston clears 7.4M in cap room this summer, and 14M in cash costs, without giving up assets besides Lin (who, with that salary, may not be considered an asset).

TOR takes on Nash's salary for the year, and loses the option of waiving Salmons for flexibility, adds a future 1st.

Works for Asik subbed in for Lin as well, if you think HOU/LAL would be more interested in that.

[mcHAPPY]

I think the critiques - especially that HOU isn't saving enough cap space, and is giving up on Asik too easily, since they consider him an asset - are valid.

Here's an attempt to fix that. Bring LAL into the fold. They want to build a contender for Kobe, and fast, but also want to be able to make an offer on a superstar in 2015/2016. Nash is doing nothing for them, except eating up 10M in cap space this summer.

So:

HOU out:
Lin (8.4M)
HOU in:
Salmons (7.6M)

LAL out:
Nash (9.3M), 1st LAL 2015 (top 10 protected, trade consummated after Lakers pick at draft) LAL in:
Lin (8.4M)

TOR out:
Salmons (7.6M)
TOR in:
Nash (9.3M), LAL 1st 2015

Lakers clear 1M in cap space and get a starting PG for this year at the cost of a protected future pick and cash (which I hear they use as toilet paper in LA), while leaving their 2015 cap wide open.

Houston clears 7.4M in cap room this summer, and 14M in cash costs, without giving up assets besides Lin (who, with that salary, may not be considered an asset).

TOR takes on Nash's salary for the year, and loses the option of waiving Salmons for flexibility, adds a future 1st.

Works for Asik subbed in for Lin as well, if you think HOU/LAL would be more interested in that.

LAL 2015 draft pick is already going to Phoenix top-5 protected from Nash sign and trade.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/dra...rafts/detailed

I disagree on original trade. Houston saved $25M in actual cash while creating $11M in cap space. That is huge.

[DanH]

LAL 2015 draft pick is already going to Phoenix top-5 protected from Nash sign and trade.

http://basketball.realgm.com/nba/dra...rafts/detailed

I disagree on original trade. Houston saved $25M in actual cash while creating $11M in cap space. That is huge.

Ugh, I misremembered the details on the LAL pick. They can trade their 2014 pick as soon as they make it, not their 2015 pick. Hmm. Well, that's too bad.

Well, if they want to send us their 2014 pick I won't complain!