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Off-Season Realistic Expectations / Predictions / probably devolve dream acquisitions

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  • RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
    A bad (or just not too good) offence and terrifying defence...

    Reminds me of a team... Oh yeah! The Bulls! Their playoff run was soooooo much better than ours right!
    We would be much better than the Bulls offensively. They were terrible offensively.

    DanH wrote: View Post
    My concern is that I think Patterson fits very well with Casey's defensive style and into any offence, so I don't think Taj is that much of an upgrade. Not to the extent that you lose DD (who at the very least is worth a great deal in trade) to make a debatable upgrade.
    Damn...I guess I'm still shooting low on my evaluation of DD, and I really do think Patterson is a good fit here. Was just thinking tho for that specific trade Patterson would have to be an outgoing player.

    I'll keep searching

    Comment


    • Raptor Jesus wrote: View Post
      The talk of history repeating itself, a great thread and reminder for old head Raptors fans got me thinking.

      Much like Grange elucidates in this piece the Raptors are in somewhat familiar territory. On the crust of a surprise spicy pizza, delivered prepaid and pre-tipped.

      We face an off-season much like those(00'01 & 06'07) where Messiah Ujiri's contemporaries have over paid minor talents. Riding crests of fan adulation with teams that never managed to sustain, let alone, build on those results.

      In that vein, I ask what is your realistic expectations of this off-season?

      And offer Mine:
      Lowry under 12 million for 3years and 10 million for 4years
      Vasquez under 3.5 mill for 3yrs
      Patterson under 5 mill for 4yrs

      Canary in the Fields mineshaft:
      Thabo Sefolosha at/under MLE or if somehow possible S&T to OKC (I'll offer the expiring Fields contract, their 2nd rounder and our 2nd rounder.)
      Bringing in Thabo would signal that the training staff doesn't think Fields can comeback from his litany of medical issues to the level he was, and thus should be considered cap relief and no more.

      Otherwise I look to 14'15 Off-season for a veteran presence and/or impact player.

      Finally, for whomever falls to our First Pick to make waves in Summer League and push the players in front of them on the depth chart in camp.

      Lowry had one spectacular season and he's only 27. I don't think you get him for 3 seasons because someone else is going to offer max years. PG's with that sort of ability, toughness and courage aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

      Patterson is a must re-sign in my opinion. I hope they keep him.

      Comment


      • Apollo wrote:
        Lowry had one spectacular season and he's only 27. I don't think you get him for 3 seasons because someone else is going to offer max years. PG's with that sort of ability, toughness and courage aren't exactly a dime a dozen.

        Patterson is a must re-sign in my opinion. I hope they keep him.

        I'd love to see Thabo come to Toronto but I don't think he's exactly the most pressing need.
        But, but he's gonna take our offer, right?
        The name's Bond, James Bond.

        Comment


        • Ah... Right.

          Comment


          • Apollo wrote: View Post
            Ah... Right.
            At least I hope so, I'm gonna feel more nervous in this year's free agency than I have in a long time. With Lowry, 2Pat and Greasy (Big Balls) Vasquez (and Nando de Yolo!) needing a choice:

            To resign, or not to resign?
            The name's Bond, James Bond.

            Comment


            • Love trade

              Wolves need to move Love. So, assuming Love is willing to extend and trade (we'll just go ahead and credit Ujiri and Leiweke with the ability to sell him), or the Raps are just extremely confident we can re-sign him, what about these ideas?

              First, assuming the Wolves are looking for youth, picks, cap solace, blowing it up.

              Wolves send Love, Martin (21.1M)

              Raptors send Ross, Salmons, Hansbrough, Hayes, 1st 2014, better of NYK/TOR 2016 (19.2M)

              Wolves shed 8M really quick waiving JS and TH, take on one expiring and a rookie scale, and get two picks. Good return for a disgruntled star. Free up a lot of long term salary. Still have Pekovic as a trade piece.

              Raptors get their superstar, take on a vet piece in Martin who can shoot, to help spread the floor (Lowry, Martin, Love spread the floor nicely for DD and JV to work inside). Re-sign Vasquez to backup the 1 and 2, Patterson to round out the big rotation (with Amir taking the backup C minutes), and letting Fields play as the defensive specialist in the wing rotation (need a little help there with DD and Martin on the wing).

              Lowry - Vasquez - de Colo
              Martin - Ross - Vasquez
              DD - Ross - Fields
              Love - Patterson - Johnson
              JV - Johnson - 2nd rounder

              Second, if the Wolves are looking to retool, rather than rebuild. Assume they want to keep Martin as a key piece, bring in good players to put around Pekovic and Rubio. Still want a pick probably, and some salary relief.

              Wolves send Love, Brewer (19.2M)

              Raptors send DeRozan, Amir Johnson, 1st 2014 (16M)

              Wolves get a starting calibre PF, all-star SG, a little salary relief, a rookie, and rid of Brewer's long term deal (and player option).

              Raptors get Love and a 3+D wing (mostly D, frankly). Re-sign Patterson and Vasquez. Sign a wing with the MLE. Waive Hansbrough and Salmons, unless they can be used in a trade for a wing or backup C.

              Lowry - Vasquez - de Colo
              Ross - Vasquez - Fields
              Brewer - MLE - Fields
              Love - Patterson - 2nd rounder
              JV - Hayes

              Thoughts?
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

              Comment


              • You have Ross in the first trade and in the lineup, do you mean a rookie?


                And I think that another team could package together a better package.
                The name's Bond, James Bond.

                Comment


                • Gonna throw a wild card out there...

                  http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mljnml2

                  Detroit gets: Salmons, Hansbrough, Novak (or some slight variation of our non-core players, ie Hayes, Fields)

                  Raptors get: Josh Smith


                  Rationale: One of Detroit's 3 starting bigs has got to go. Everyone talks about signing Monroe as a RFA, although he is a questionable fit with JV, and his defense is lacklustre. Everyone (rightfully) hates on Josh Smith, but a big part of the problem was his (foreseeably) terrible fit in that lineup. He had a very bad season, but he was a terrible fit in a disfunctional organization.

                  He is an elite defender versus most 3s and 4s, as well as a top-notch rim protector. He is also very good offensive player if he focuses on his strengths in transition, slashing, and in the post. That's a big if, obviously, but our strong organization and team chemistry, with leaders like Lowry, Demar, and Amir, could help in that regard.

                  Casey would obviously have to hold him accountable, and essentially ban all jump shots beyond 16 feet. FWIW, something like this happened in 2009-10, when Smith only took seven 3-pointers all season and finished with a FG% of .505. Last season he attempted 265 3-pointers!

                  Amir would move to our 3rd big, capable of backing up both Smith and JV for 20-30 minutes/night, which would limit wear and tear on his beatdown body. We could keep Patterson as our 4th big, let him walk, or S&T him for a good-value backup 5 or 3.

                  Detroit does this to get out of Smith's onerous contract, which obviously isn't working for them. They get cap relief from Salmons, Hansbrough buyouts, and SVG gets a little more flexibility in building his team around the killer Drummond/Monroe tandem. Also, Novak would have some appeal spreading the floor for these two young bigs. Throw in a 2nd rounder or two if needed.

                  Essentially, Josh Smith's stock has never been lower, but in Atlanta was a borderline all-star and legit 2-way player. In the right situation, there's no reason to think he can't regain that form. Is Toronto that right situation?

                  Thoughts?
                  Last edited by The Chef; Sun May 18, 2014, 11:31 PM.

                  Comment


                  • The Chef wrote: View Post
                    Gonna throw a wild card out there...

                    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mljnml2

                    Detroit gets: Salmons, Hansbrough, Novak (or some slight variation of our non-core players, ie Hayes, Fields)

                    Raptors get: Josh Smith


                    Rationale: One of Detroit's 3 starting bigs has got to go. Everyone talks about signing Monroe as a RFA, although he is a questionable fit with JV, and his defense is lacklustre. Everyone (rightfully) hates on Josh Smith, but a big part of the problem was his (foreseeably) terrible fit in that lineup. He had a very bad season, but he was a terrible fit in a disfunctional organization.

                    He is an elite defender versus most 3s and 4s, as well as a top-notch rim protector. He is also very good offensive player if he focuses on his strengths in transition, slashing, and in the post. That's a big if, obviously, but our strong organization and team chemistry, with leaders like Lowry, Demar, and Amir, could help in that regard.

                    Casey would obviously have to hold him accountable, and essentially ban all jump shots beyond 16 feet. FWIW, something like this happened in 2009-10, when Smith only took seven 3-pointers all season and finished with a FG% of .505. Last season he attempted 265 3-pointers!

                    Amir would move to our 3rd big, capable of backing up both Smith and JV for 20-30 minutes/night, which would limit wear and tear on his beatdown body. We could keep Patterson as our 4th big, let him walk, or S&T him for a good-value backup 5 or 3.

                    Detroit does this to get out of Smith's onerous contract, which obviously isn't working for them. They get cap relief from Salmons, Hansbrough buyouts, and SVG gets a little more flexibility in building his team around the killer Drummond/Monroe tandem.

                    Essentially, Josh Smith's stock has never been lower, but in Atlanta was a borderline all-star and legit 2-way player. In the right situation, there's no reason to think he can't regain that form. Is Toronto that right situation?

                    Thoughts?
                    I we can trade the players you listed and get him, I'm loving that deal.

                    If we need to we could throw in a couple of our extra second rounders (this year and 2017) and MAYBE if we have to the less favourable of the 2016 1st round picks.
                    The name's Bond, James Bond.

                    Comment


                    • I don't see Masai wanting to tie up that much future cap space on a declining overpaid malcontent. Josh Smith would be great if he didn't think he was a superstar and could play second fiddle. That has never been the case though.

                      Comment


                      • The Chef wrote: View Post
                        Gonna throw a wild card out there...

                        http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=mljnml2

                        Detroit gets: Salmons, Hansbrough, Novak (or some slight variation of our non-core players, ie Hayes, Fields)

                        Raptors get: Josh Smith


                        Rationale: One of Detroit's 3 starting bigs has got to go. Everyone talks about signing Monroe as a RFA, although he is a questionable fit with JV, and his defense is lacklustre. Everyone (rightfully) hates on Josh Smith, but a big part of the problem was his (foreseeably) terrible fit in that lineup. He had a very bad season, but he was a terrible fit in a disfunctional organization.

                        He is an elite defender versus most 3s and 4s, as well as a top-notch rim protector. He is also very good offensive player if he focuses on his strengths in transition, slashing, and in the post. That's a big if, obviously, but our strong organization and team chemistry, with leaders like Lowry, Demar, and Amir, could help in that regard.

                        Casey would obviously have to hold him accountable, and essentially ban all jump shots beyond 16 feet. FWIW, something like this happened in 2009-10, when Smith only took seven 3-pointers all season and finished with a FG% of .505. Last season he attempted 265 3-pointers!

                        Amir would move to our 3rd big, capable of backing up both Smith and JV for 20-30 minutes/night, which would limit wear and tear on his beatdown body. We could keep Patterson as our 4th big, let him walk, or S&T him for a good-value backup 5 or 3.

                        Detroit does this to get out of Smith's onerous contract, which obviously isn't working for them. They get cap relief from Salmons, Hansbrough buyouts, and SVG gets a little more flexibility in building his team around the killer Drummond/Monroe tandem.

                        Essentially, Josh Smith's stock has never been lower, but in Atlanta was a borderline all-star and legit 2-way player. In the right situation, there's no reason to think he can't regain that form. Is Toronto that right situation?

                        Thoughts?
                        Honestly, that sounds amazing.

                        I would do that trade in a heartbeat and adding a couple second rounders would get Detroit to say yes. If smith plays pf and is not the first option, he obviously isn't going to be, we can be a dangerous team. Smith can guard the lebrons and joe penis of the league. But only if he doesn't shoot us out of games, and that's a major IF
                        I'm back. I no longer worship joe johnson

                        Comment


                        • Primer wrote: View Post
                          I don't see Masai wanting to tie up that much future cap space on a declining overpaid malcontent. Josh Smith would be great if he didn't think he was a superstar and could play second fiddle. That has never been the case though.
                          Yeah, those are the two big sticking points: it's a big salary cap commitment, and projecting whether or not Josh Smith would fit into the team system in Toronto.

                          Malcontent, maybe, but I wouldn't say Josh Smith is declining. He's 28, with no major injury concerns. Last season he suffered a major drop-off in efficiency & productivity, but since that coincided with his switch to a new team that was an obviously poor fit, I'm willing to bet he can regain his borderline All-Star form given the right situation.

                          It just seems that this is a textbook "buy low" opportunity, and a player who's skill-set (athleticism, rim protection, interior scoring) fit our team needs.

                          Rough calculations put us at about $3-5mil under the luxury tax after completing the trade (assuming we bring back all our FAs), with 11 players signed, not including our draft picks. We could use some of our mid-level to add another bench player (eg. Wesley Johnson), fill up with our 2 top draft picks (stash our late 2-rounder) and we have this roster:

                          1.Lowry 2.Vazquez 3.DeColo
                          1.Derozan 2.Wesley Johnson 3. (Empty roster spot for flexibility)
                          1.Ross 2.Fields 3.#20 pic
                          1.Smith 2.Patterson 3.Hayes
                          1.JV 2.Amir 3.#37 pick

                          Super athletic, extremely versatile, this team can run, shoot, and defend. After next season expire Hayes and Fields shedding over $12mil, we add more draft picks, and though we don't have much (if any) cap space, we have the cap exceptions, and lots of trade assets that could be used for another upgrade in talent and/or experience.
                          Last edited by The Chef; Sun May 18, 2014, 11:28 PM.

                          Comment


                          • RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
                            I we can trade the players you listed and get him, I'm loving that deal.

                            If we need to we could throw in a couple of our extra second rounders (this year and 2017) and MAYBE if we have to the less favourable of the 2016 1st round picks.
                            Yeah a 2nd-rounder or two might be needed as well. Also, I should have mentioned that SVG would see some value in Novak's ability to space the floor for Drummond/Monroe to work inside. (my earlier post has been edited to include these details).

                            Comment


                            • RaptorsFohEva wrote: View Post
                              You have Ross in the first trade and in the lineup, do you mean a rookie?


                              And I think that another team could package together a better package.
                              Sorry, yeah, Ross wouldn't be in the lineup.

                              Better package than 2 firsts, a prospect, and salary relief? I'd like to see it.
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

                              Comment


                              • DanH wrote: View Post
                                Sorry, yeah, Ross wouldn't be in the lineup.

                                Better package than 2 firsts, a prospect, and salary relief? I'd like to see it.
                                I think we will. That's very modest compared to past superstar trades. Someone would join and raise the price like often happens with trades of this caliber.

                                Comment

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