Demar for draft pick poll - don't freak out, read first

[BigCamB]

Must be boring in Europe/Africa or wherever the hell you are. Chill out....just poking fun at someone. Really has nothing to do with you anyways. Must you always share your opinion of a joke? Weird.

Like......what the actual fuck.

[imanshumpert]

DD for Wilson Chandler + #11? Seems like a decent return (maybe a little low). Chandler + 11 + Mozgov might do. Backup C, starting SF, plus we keep our 20th, and maybe 11+20+37 gets us into the top 6. If not, 11 might get us Ennis on the chance Lowry decides to go elsewhere, and 20 could grab us a backup SF defensive specialist.

This is not good enough.

You do not trade your highest valued asset for a "decent return" just for the sake of getting rid of it. That is silly.

You trade it for a great/excellent/superb return. From what I've seen you just want to get rid of DeRozan. Trading him for the 11th pick and 2 role players doesn't do jack shit for us.

[ball4life]

This is not good enough.

You do not trade your highest valued asset for a "decent return" just for the sake of getting rid of it. That is silly.

You trade it for a great/excellent/superb return. From what I've seen you just want to get rid of DeRozan. Trading him for the 11th pick and 2 role players doesn't do jack shit for us.

man... sumone trade for DD already.. dudes causing too much ruckus in RR

[DanH]

This is not good enough.

You do not trade your highest valued asset for a "decent return" just for the sake of getting rid of it. That is silly.

You trade it for a great/excellent/superb return. From what I've seen you just want to get rid of DeRozan. Trading him for the 11th pick and 2 role players doesn't do jack shit for us.

A lotto pick in one of the most stacked drafts of the decade, a solid 3 (which we have none of) and a backup C is a bad return? You might want to look at what fringe all-stars tend to get traded for historically. Sure, I'd love to get more for DD, but the other team has to agree to the deal, you know?

[JawsGT]

It's fun to wonder about these things, but guys need to relax a bit. The crowd that like Derozan are probably over-valuing him, and the crowd that aren't fans of his game are probably under-valuing him. Either way, do any of you really think that one of the teams picking in the top5 of the draft would actually let that pick go for Demar?

Also, crow is good...not bad with roasted potatoes and coleslaw, and it's dark like seal....mmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

[imanshumpert]

A lotto pick in one of the most stacked drafts of the decade, a solid 3 (which we have none of) and a backup C is a bad return? You might want to look at what fringe all-stars tend to get traded for historically. Sure, I'd love to get more for DD, but the other team has to agree to the deal, you know?

I'm not saying that we could actually get MORE for DeRozan, I don't know the trade market. But if that's the best offer on the table you don't do it. You don't trade him just for the sake of trading him because you don't have better offers, that's stupid.

That is a pointless move. All it does is add role players to our team, the 11th pick has a TINY chance of being a star player at any point in his career.

Trading DeRozan for non-stars is not going to take this team to the next level. It only makes sense to trade DeMar if it's as part of a larger package for a superior player or for a chance of getting a player who is VERY LIKELY to become a star in the future.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

I'm not saying that we could actually get MORE for DeRozan, I don't know the trade market. But if that's the best offer on the table you don't do it. You don't trade him just for the sake of trading him because you don't have better offers, that's stupid.

That is a pointless move. All it does is add role players to our team, the 11th pick has a TINY chance of being a star player at any point in his career.

Trading DeRozan for non-stars is not going to take this team to the next level. It only makes sense to trade DeMar if it's as part of a larger package for a superior player or for a chance of getting a player who is VERY LIKELY to become a star in the future.

At what point does 3 quality rotation players (at least) become greater than a borderline one-dimensional all-star though?

I get your argument if we're talking about trading a guy like LBJ or KD, but DeRozan is way out of their league. Yes he was an all-star, but his defense is terrible and his offense is still too inefficient for my liking (obviously it can and should continue to improve).

Remember, DeRozan was a #9 pick, so I'm unimpressed by your continued reliance on historic probabilities, rather than actually talking about the 2014 draft class. Trading a #9 pick for a #11 pick AND a solid SF/SG AND a solid young C is a pretty decent return.

I personally think a better deal could potentially be out there, but that's actually a decent return.

[imanshumpert]

At what point does 3 quality rotation players (at least) become greater than a borderline one-dimensional all-star though?

I get your argument if we're talking about trading a guy like LBJ or KD, but DeRozan is way out of their league. Yes he was an all-star, but his defense is terrible and his offense is still too inefficient for my liking (obviously it can and should continue to improve).

Remember, DeRozan was a #9 pick, so I'm unimpressed by your continued reliance on historic probabilities, rather than actually talking about the 2014 draft class. Trading a #9 pick for a #11 pick AND a solid SF/SG AND a solid young C is a pretty decent return.

I personally think a better deal could potentially be out there, but that's actually a decent return.

Yes it's a "decent" return, I didn't say it wasn't. If you're trying to move DeRozan for a total rebuild then it makes sense, but as it pertains to our team right now I don't like it at all. You have to remember that if you deal DeRozan you are almost certainly losing Lowry as well. That is why in a DeRozan trade I want a franchise building block coming back the other way, otherwise it just isn't logical. 2 role players and a pick that historically rarely produces all-stars doesn't do it for me.

It's nice to pretend that we're trading #9 for an 11 and two role players, which in theory seems smart; but let's remember that DeRozan has turned out significantly better than the average #9 pick.

[stooley]

It's nice to pretend that we're trading #9 for an 11 and two role players, which in theory seems smart; but let's remember that DeRozan has turned out significantly better than the average #9 pick.

I think that's exactly the problem with that way of thinking.

ESPN redid the 09 draft the other day and I think Elhassan still had DD at 9.

And this draft is rumored to be at least as strong.

Not every draft is built equal, so to get more accurate results you should be comparing "good" drafts to good ones and "bad" drafts to bad ones.

Noone was thinking you'd get an all star at 10 last year, but you've got a decent shot at it this year.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Yes it's a "decent" return, I didn't say it wasn't. If you're trying to move DeRozan for a total rebuild then it makes sense, but as it pertains to our team right now I don't like it at all. You have to remember that if you deal DeRozan you are almost certainly losing Lowry as well. That is why in a DeRozan trade I want a franchise building block coming back the other way, otherwise it just isn't logical. 2 role players and a pick that historically rarely produces all-stars doesn't do it for me.

It's nice to pretend that we're trading #9 for an 11 and two role players, which in theory seems smart; but let's remember that DeRozan has turned out significantly better than the average #9 pick.

With regards to the bold, why? I don't get this logic. I'm not intending to be snarky, I'm honestly curious why you believe that to be the case.

If Lowry, Vasquez, Patterson and De Colo all re-sign, and the Raps draft BPA at #11, #20 and #37 (ignoring all trade and/or FA scenarios), I see no reason for the Raptors not to remain competitive for the playoffs in the EC next season.

LINEUP (using that scenario)
C: Valanciunas, Mozgov, Hayes
PF: Johnson, Patterson, Novak
SF: Chandler, Fields
SG: Ross
PG: Lowry, Vasquez, De Colo

ADD: #11, #20 and #37 (as long as at least 1 of them becomes a rotation wing, that lineup is set)


You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either compare #9 to #11, or compare DeRozan to the actual players likely to be available with the #11 pick in the upcoming draft. You can't compare DeRozan to a statistical average just to suit your argument.

[imanshumpert]

With regards to the bold, why? I don't get this logic. I'm not intending to be snarky, I'm honestly curious why you believe that to be the case.

If Lowry, Vasquez, Patterson and De Colo all re-sign, and the Raps draft BPA at #11, #20 and #37 (ignoring all trade and/or FA scenarios), I see no reason for the Raptors not to remain competitive for the playoffs in the EC next season.

LINEUP (using that scenario)
C: Valanciunas, Mozgov, Hayes
PF: Johnson, Patterson, Novak
SF: Chandler, Fields
SG: Ross
PG: Lowry, Vasquez, De Colo

ADD: #11, #20 and #37 (as long as at least 1 of them becomes a rotation wing, that lineup is set)


You can't have your cake and eat it to. Either compare #9 to #11, or compare DeRozan to the actual players likely to be available with the #11 pick in the upcoming draft. You can't compare DeRozan to a statistical average just to suit your argument.

Lowry said he's big on winning. Trading away the team's all-star for two role players and an unknown quantity will not send a "winning" message to him. Remember that NBA players are not general managers. Even if the #11 pick is a player with the potential to be better than DeRozan, why would Lowry agree to sit around and waste his prime waiting for that guy to develop?

I'm not having my cake and eating it too, you are. DeRozan is an all-star. #11 picks according to 82games have a 15% chance of becoming a star, and 23.3% make at least 1 all-star game in their careers. Yes this draft is supposed to be stronger than the average one (although that remains to be seen), but either way I don't like those odds. Comparing #9 to #11 doesn't make any fucking sense because DeRozan is significantly better than the average #9 pick.

[e_wheazhy_]

I hope everyone is aware that to lure Durant, we will need to let DeMar walk when he opts out that year. DeMar is not a piece to attract Durant with - if DeMar stays, we don't have the cap space for Durant. If he goes, we do. If he stays (say, via extension) and we try to sign and trade for Durant, the conversation will start and end with DeMar going the other way.

Do we not have Demar's bird rights when it comes to resign him? So could we not sign durant, use all the cap space we have and then sign Demar's extension which would allow us to go over the cap?

[Joey]

Do we not have Demar's bird rights when it comes to resign him? So could we not sign durant, use all the cap space we have and then sign Demar's extension which would allow us to go over the cap?

Demars cap hold would restrict alot of that cap space I believe.

[DanH]

Do we not have Demar's bird rights when it comes to resign him? So could we not sign durant, use all the cap space we have and then sign Demar's extension which would allow us to go over the cap?

We could, but DD has a 14.25M cap hold that summer. So we could only use cap space to sign Durant to, say, a 21M contract if we had 35M in cap room - 14 for DD's cap hold, and 21 for Durant. Tough to get team salary that low, unless you basically only have Ross, JV and Lowry on the team.

[imanshumpert]

Do we not have Demar's bird rights when it comes to resign him? So could we not sign durant, use all the cap space we have and then sign Demar's extension which would allow us to go over the cap?

DeMar has a 14M cap hold if he opts out.

It's still possible to have enough room for Durant even with that, although a lot of people here are trying to pretend that it isn't.