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  • #16
    Dont think veterans really help rookies and sophmore much. They need to deal with oth issues like conditioning and general skills before they can get anything from veterans. Demar looks like he picked things up from Lou to fine tune his game. Maybe Scola helps JV but Carrol would do nothing for Bruno. Sixers are trying to create NBA players from low picks and letting Guys like Okafor and Noel get enough reps to trade for big fish.

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    • #17
      raptors999 wrote: View Post
      Dont think veterans really help rookies and sophmore much. They need to deal with oth issues like conditioning and general skills before they can get anything from veterans. Demar looks like he picked things up from Lou to fine tune his game. Maybe Scola helps JV but Carrol would do nothing for Bruno. Sixers are trying to create NBA players from low picks and letting Guys like Okafor and Noel get enough reps to trade for big fish.
      I don't know if it's visible on the court, but virtually every NBA player talks about the importance of locker room vets who mentored them as young players.

      It's all salary cap, though. Teams are filling out rosters with prospects on cheap deals instead of with vets who require the league minimum and push you over the cap.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • #18
        raptors999 wrote: View Post
        Dont think veterans really help rookies and sophmore much. They need to deal with oth issues like conditioning and general skills before they can get anything from veterans. Demar looks like he picked things up from Lou to fine tune his game. Maybe Scola helps JV but Carrol would do nothing for Bruno. Sixers are trying to create NBA players from low picks and letting Guys like Okafor and Noel get enough reps to trade for big fish.
        Veterans help with the offcourt stuff. Pacing yourself for a long season, how to deal with the media, what to expect from certain referees, how to make your voice heard in the locker room, and just general professionalism.

        Oakley, Willis, Bogues, et al were instrumental in Carter's growth.

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        • #19
          Another quote from Brown after thanking Philly fans who are crowdfunding a relaxation package for him:

          "You know what I really want?" Brown said. "I want to know if they have any drills that can turn a bunch of 20-year-olds into 25-year-olds. If they have that, I'm all ears."
          http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...xation-package

          The other reason it's important to have a couple of vets around, aside from the off-court stuff and professionalism that Nilanka mentioned, is that it ensures more consistency of set play. As is mentioned in the article, imagine having to reteach the offense and defense every year. Minnesota has been excelling despite Smitch stepping in at the eleventh hour partly because they do have some continuity with Rubio there, with Garnett starting the games to provide an anchor.

          KD went out of his way to thank his veteran teammates (like Kendrick Perkins and Nick Collison) when he won the MVP:
          Nick, you know, the first guy I met when I first got to Seattle as an 18 year old. You took me in. You believed in me from the beginning.
          It's one ancillary benefit of the Carroll deal: his hustle and grit will be rubbing off on the youngs for the next few years.
          It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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          • #20
            As I just posted in the Houston thread as an aside, throwing a bunch of young guys out there to "develop" never, ever works. You need to have at least a few quality professional players in the mix or else your guys don't learn how to be professionals. I saw a reference to Leonard above being thrown to the wolves but part of the reason that works is that Pop has Duncan, Parker, Ginobli, etc. to go to the kid and help him out, encourage him, teach him and get on him. That kind of stuff makes a huge difference in every single profession in the world.

            Hinkie's vision in Philly is flawed for a lot of reasons but one of the main reasons is that it completely ignores the human aspect of the game and how emotions, psychology, etc. play into success.

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            • #21
              Scraptor wrote: View Post
              The other reason it's important to have a couple of vets around, aside from the off-court stuff and professionalism that Nilanka mentioned, is that it ensures more consistency of set play. As is mentioned in the article, imagine having to reteach the offense and defense every year. Minnesota has been excelling despite Smitch stepping in at the eleventh hour partly because they do have some continuity with Rubio there, with Garnett starting the games to provide an anchor.
              There was a great article on ESPN yesterday about Garnett's personality as a leader, and his mentorship of Towns.

              http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...-kevin-garnett

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              • #22
                octothorp wrote: View Post
                There was a great article on ESPN yesterday about Garnett's personality as a leader, and his mentorship of Towns.

                http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14...-kevin-garnett
                One of the differences between Philly and Minny is that the T-Wolves were never pro-actively trying to lose year after year. They were initially trying to build around Love, Rubio & Pekovic, but that was just a terribly flawed core in so many ways. They added free agent veterans that could help them win games, like Mo Williams and Kevin Martin. Even Pekovic was a 20+ PER guy. Eventually, they were forced into dealing Love and really wanted Klay Thompson and the stars aligned with: (a) Lebron going home, (b) Lebron wanting Love, (c) Cavs miraculously getting #1 pick. That trifecta just fell in their lap. They never really overtly tanked for Towns either - it was just a badly constructed roster full of one-way players created through poor GM'ing that made them suck naturally.

                My guess is that Hinkie doesn't want to add veteran players because they might accidentally help the Sixers win a few more games than they really want to. But if Hinkie was smart, he could sign veterans like Andrea Bargnani or Jarrett Jack. Those type of guys always seem to be on the worst possible teams.

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                • #23
                  The point of the article was that young players do need actual game time to develop into a high level player. Something a few of us here have been saying PT** needs to happen with Bruno and Bebe but have been met with resistance.

                  There you have it, one of the greatest coaches of all time has a similar philosophy to a few here on RR.

                  **please note that im talking about meaningfull PT (second and third quarters) playing with starters where they can learn off ball and defense skills. Garbage minutes are useless.

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                  • #24
                    OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                    The point of the article was that young players do need actual game time to develop into a high level player. Something a few of us here have been saying PT** needs to happen with Bruno and Bebe but have been met with resistance.

                    There you have it, one of the greatest coaches of all time has a similar philosophy to a few here on RR.

                    **please note that im talking about meaningfull PT (second and third quarters) playing with starters where they can learn off ball and defense skills. Garbage minutes are useless.
                    What about D-league minutes?

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                    • #25
                      OldSkoolCool wrote: View Post
                      The point of the article was that young players do need actual game time to develop into a high level player. Something a few of us here have been saying PT** needs to happen with Bruno and Bebe but have been met with resistance.

                      There you have it, one of the greatest coaches of all time has a similar philosophy to a few here on RR.

                      **please note that im talking about meaningfull PT (second and third quarters) playing with starters where they can learn off ball and defense skills. Garbage minutes are useless.
                      Exactly, all the examples presented were players who had veteran leaders and got pt. currently, i have no idea why bebe gets no pt when we have one center currently who is useless on offense. Scola just should not get over 30 minutes given his age and the stage of the season. Bebe really would not hurt playing the last 3 minutes of the 1 and 3 quarters at least.

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                      • #26
                        DogeLover1234 wrote: View Post
                        Exactly, all the examples presented were players who had veteran leaders and got pt. currently, i have no idea why bebe gets no pt when we have one center currently who is useless on offense. Scola just should not get over 30 minutes given his age and the stage of the season. Bebe really would not hurt playing the last 3 minutes of the 1 and 3 quarters at least.
                        The playing time for our more productive players is not looking good so far. Caroll keeps playing a lot of minutes on a bad foot. Lowry has somehow played even more minutes than last year.
                        "Both teams played hard my man" - Sheed

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                        • #27
                          MACK11 wrote: View Post
                          The playing time for our more productive players is not looking good so far. Caroll keeps playing a lot of minutes on a bad foot. Lowry has somehow played even more minutes than last year.
                          Called this one as it was my biggest concern coming into the season.
                          "My biggest concern as a coach is to not confuse winning with progress." - Steve Kerr
                          "If it's unacceptable in defeat, it's unacceptable in victory." - Jeff Van Gundy

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                          • #28
                            Jahil Okafor just knocked some guy out in Boston for saying the 76ers suck... Looks like the losing mentality is getting to him.

                            Hes probably lost more games in the last 4 weeks then his entire basketball life.

                            http://www.tmz.com/2015/11/26/jahlil...-boston-video/

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                            • #29
                              MACK11 wrote: View Post
                              The playing time for our more productive players is not looking good so far. Caroll keeps playing a lot of minutes on a bad foot. Lowry has somehow played even more minutes than last year.
                              I definitely think Powell should get minutes. He hasn't been bad when he's been out there and he's no more of a detriment to the team than Ross who provides little to nothing most nights.

                              Rolling with a 7-man rotation, which is basically what happened last night, isn't going to be sustainable for 6 weeks.

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                              • #30
                                SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                                What about D-league minutes?
                                D-league minutes are good to keep in game shape and stay fresh, but the NBA is another beast entirely. You don't learn from easy situations, you learn from adversity. In fact you learn better from mistakes than anything else.

                                The game isn't going to slow down for Bruno, Bebe, Powell, or Wright until they get used to NBA situations. It's fine to stash them for a while, but with Jonas down, there's really no excuse for Bebe not to be getting minutes.

                                And as OldSkool mentioned, it needs to be meaningful minutes. It's why we've been pounding the table (rock?) on getting Jonas fourth quarter minutes. Byron Scott has been taken to task about not playing D'Angelo Russell in the fourth quarter--even in blowouts. Russell has been pretty good about it, but he did mention this:

                                “That would be great,” Russell told Los Angeles News Group. “You’re only a rookie once. You get reps now and mess up now. So then next year when you’re not a rookie, you don’t have to worry about making rookie mistakes.”
                                The problem with our young guys is we keep pushing their curve back by not playing them. You have to take your medicine at some point. We had the luxury to try this the last couple years when the east was terrible. Now the east is good, it's trickier to do, but you still have to find creative ways to do it. If Pop can get Kyle freaking Anderson 140 minutes this season already, we can do more for our young guys.
                                It's the Spicy Show! Time to cook.

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