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Tear It Down or Rebuild On The Fly?

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  • #91
    Mitchell Duong wrote: View Post
    As an Oilers fan. I do not advocate stripping it to the foundation and tanking. Its not fun and sometimes it never gets good.
    Oh gosh, no one should want to strip it to the foundation. We've got good players to build around.

    But Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka are not going to be around long term, and any of them who are will not be key to future success. There's a difference between taking a down year or two to extract value from veterans who aren't in future plans anyway, and trading away players who can still contribute for a long time.

    Also, Oilers fans should mostly be warning against having terrible management. Terrible management is how a tank turns into a perpetual tank. The Raptors have Masai Ujiri.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • #92
      Well, given the signings it certainly looks like they are going to give it a go and see what happens. I’m slightly concerned about the lack of proven shooters but if this Euroleague import can fire they might be okay even if the new brick brothers are out there.

      Interesting to see if this is it for now.

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      • #93
        slaw wrote: View Post
        Well, given the signings it certainly looks like they are going to give it a go and see what happens. I’m slightly concerned about the lack of proven shooters but if this Euroleague import can fire they might be okay even if the new brick brothers are out there.

        Interesting to see if this is it for now.
        I don't know that the signings indicate anything, really. Could work whether they tear it down a bit or run it back. Makes sense to plan to be trying to win until you know you have a deal worth making anyway.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #94
          DanH wrote: View Post

          I don't know that the signings indicate anything, really. Could work whether they tear it down a bit or run it back. Makes sense to plan to be trying to win until you know you have a deal worth making anyway.
          True, they make sense from various angles. Just given the state of play right now not sure Raps have a lot of options to move the expirings straightaway, so my inference is that these moves look complimentary to the current roster.

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          • #95
            slaw wrote: View Post

            True, they make sense from various angles. Just given the state of play right now not sure Raps have a lot of options to move the expirings straightaway, so my inference is that these moves look complimentary to the current roster.
            Yeah, I'm not saying I know one way or the other, either path would not surprise me at all at this point.

            But I do have an article dropping tomorrow on a bunch of options to potentially move the big three expiring contracts to right now. I don't think the Raps are handcuffed at all - if they take this roster into the season, that's likely a choice on their part.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • #96
              Maury wrote: View Post

              Doc't forget the Knicks!
              Was just gonna say that after reading RB"s post lol. The way things have been, by 2021 free agency will probably be more of an abstract concept. If the Knicks have the cap space, there's not much preventing Giannis plus 3 or so top 10 players in the league to gang up together if they want to take a bit of less money and win 4 chips in a row or something. May need a bit of behind the scenes planning beforehand [*cough* tampering*cough*], but won't matter who's a free agent or under contract, whichever top-gun wanting to join the party could just play "disgruntled" and demand a trade there, and no one could do much about it the way things are.

              Giannis is a competitor though, at least for now he doesn't seem the type of player that would try to arrange something like that. I feel we should definitely pursue him in 2021. Luckily too, in spite of being in new york, for some reason free-agents want nothing to do with the Knicks lol
              ==Glad to have doubted the doubters==

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              • #97
                inthepaint wrote: View Post

                Was just gonna say that after reading RB"s post lol. The way things have been, by 2021 free agency will probably be more of an abstract concept. If the Knicks have the cap space, there's not much preventing Giannis plus 3 or so top 10 players in the league to gang up together if they want to take a bit of less money and win 4 chips in a row or something. May need a bit of behind the scenes planning beforehand [*cough* tampering*cough*], but won't matter who's a free agent or under contract, whichever top-gun wanting to join the party could just play "disgruntled" and demand a trade there, and no one could do much about it the way things are.

                Giannis is a competitor though, at least for now he doesn't seem the type of player that would try to arrange something like that. I feel we should definitely pursue him in 2021. Luckily too, in spite of being in new york, for some reason free-agents want nothing to do with the Knicks lol
                I think so too but insert "Kawhi" there and it's exactly what we said about him until a week ago .....

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                • #98
                  G__Deane wrote: View Post

                  I think so too but insert "Kawhi" there and it's exactly what we said about him until a week ago .....
                  True. A lot of that was a "utopic construct" based on how people wished he was like. He would never say anything and was always very private, so that a was blank canvas for people to paint on whatever they wished. Giannis though, at least for now, went out of his way to say he doesn't like coddling with guys on his summer workouts, seems to come from a different background. But who knows. At the end of the day he probably gets a tampering text from LeBron every summer to join him and tell him that this is how teams are built now. Hopefully he finds it annoying.
                  ==Glad to have doubted the doubters==

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                  • #99
                    We should all know by now that Masai doesn't tank. Nothing good comes from it. Teaches young players bad habits.
                    @Chr1st1anL

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                    • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                      We should all know by now that Masai doesn't tank. Nothing good comes from it. Teaches young players bad habits.
                      Depends, Philly is turning the corner and favorites in the East this year, but you have Suns on the other end of that recent tanking wave.
                      Still, you need that superstar Top 10 player to win it all and I doubt we get the same opportunity as with Kawhi anytime soon, because it was so unique in circumstances and fitting the assets we had and Spurs wanted, also other teams know the pattern now likely driving up the price if the similar situation arises.
                      Other ways to acquire such player is trying to get that top lottery seed or Free Agency, and as other mentioned the latter has to wait until 2021 class.
                      I'd still rather see what we have this year and if we are on the fringe of playoffs spot (6-10) it's time to tear it down and deal away expirings/assets to get into lottery for the first time since the Knicks picks we got from Bargnani. But if we are competitive and roster clicks then I'd love to see them gaining even more experience, especially Siakam as alpha player, maybe not push trading for reinforcements to remain flexible, but at least keep them competitive with current squad. And after that trying to keep Lowry/Ibaka on team friendly deals for 20/21 with TO for 21/22.

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                      • Majesiu wrote: View Post

                        Depends, Philly is turning the corner and favorites in the East this year, but you have Suns on the other end of that recent tanking wave.
                        Still, you need that superstar Top 10 player to win it all and I doubt we get the same opportunity as with Kawhi anytime soon, because it was so unique in circumstances and fitting the assets we had and Spurs wanted, also other teams know the pattern now likely driving up the price if the similar situation arises.
                        Other ways to acquire such player is trying to get that top lottery seed or Free Agency, and as other mentioned the latter has to wait until 2021 class.
                        I'd still rather see what we have this year and if we are on the fringe of playoffs spot (6-10) it's time to tear it down and deal away expirings/assets to get into lottery for the first time since the Knicks picks we got from Bargnani. But if we are competitive and roster clicks then I'd love to see them gaining even more experience, especially Siakam as alpha player, maybe not push trading for reinforcements to remain flexible, but at least keep them competitive with current squad. And after that trying to keep Lowry/Ibaka on team friendly deals for 20/21 with TO for 21/22.
                        Top 10 players have been available in trades the past 4 summers. Philly tanked and we still won a championship before them.
                        @Chr1st1anL

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                        • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                          We should all know by now that Masai doesn't tank. Nothing good comes from it. Teaches young players bad habits.
                          Of course Masai would tank. It’s been pretty widely reported that he was actively trying to start up a tank when he traded Gay. He just stopped trying when the deal for Lowry fell through and the team started winning.

                          And that was a similar situation to where they are now - key pieces approaching free agency at the end of the year. Not identical of course - the team is better now than it was, so it is not some guarantee that they’ll choose to sell those vets. But to pretend Masai doesn’t tank on principle is to ignore the Raps’ recent history.
                          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                          • The lotto revisions has shown us that a proper tank is far more dangerous now. If Masai were to tank right now I'd be signing off Everything Raptors and turning off the TV for a few years. I've spent far too many years watching shit basketball, hoping for that break through. To get it and then have them turn around and tank? No thanks but good luck is what I'd have to say.

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post

                              Of course Masai would tank. It’s been pretty widely reported that he was actively trying to start up a tank when he traded Gay. He just stopped trying when the deal for Lowry fell through and the team started winning.

                              And that was a similar situation to where they are now - key pieces approaching free agency at the end of the year. Not identical of course - the team is better now than it was, so it is not some guarantee that they’ll choose to sell those vets. But to pretend Masai doesn’t tank on principle is to ignore the Raps’ recent history.
                              Widely reported from a front office that doesn't leak. Until Masai says he was planing to tank that year or he does actually tank than i'll believe it. Even if that trade goes through doesn't mean Masai intended to tank. I think he still excepted the team to be competitive if that trade went through.

                              What Philly does is tanking. Masai would never intentionally build a roster to lose games on purpose. Masai whole heartily believes you can win and develop at the same time.

                              "We're not doing that here," general manager Masai Ujiri said about the possibility of tanking Wednesday, per Seerat Sohi of The Tip-Off. "We're finding young players. We're going to grow. We're going to win."
                              https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-going-to-win
                              @Chr1st1anL

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                              • I seem him letting us drop down for a year or two, but ya not much than that. A mixture of trading, drafting, and signing will get us reset, and I don't see us in the basement long.

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