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Tear It Down or Rebuild On The Fly?

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  • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post

    Widely reported from a front office that doesn't leak. Until Masai says he was planing to tank that year or he does actually tank than i'll believe it. Even if that trade goes through doesn't mean Masai intended to tank. I think he still excepted the team to be competitive if that trade went through.

    What Philly does is tanking. Masai would never intentionally build a roster to lose games on purpose. Masai whole heartily believes you can win and develop at the same time.



    https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...e-going-to-win
    It didn't come from the front office, it came from the players. If Lowry went, DeRozan would have asked for a trade shortly after - because everyone could see if Lowry went, the tank was on.

    I never imagine Masai will try to bottom out like Philly did, especially for an extended period of time. But he will certainly consider moving off of win-now veteran contracts for futures and letting the team lose more games if the young core can't win them by themselves, if it sets them up for future success. We won't be seeing Masai dump Pascal because he helps us win - but Lowry, Serge, Gasol? Those guys are definitely on the table, even if losing them means not making the playoffs.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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    • The more I think about it, personally I'd like for Kyle to retire as a Raptor. I'd rather keep him and not get that pick or prospect. The pick won't be that high and the prospect might not be that good, no better than a Stanley Johnson type player who needs a lot of work.

      Kyle has become the most important Raptors of all time in my view. He embodies all things I admire in a basketball player now they he can make shots in big games. I'd like for him to stay till the end and become an ambassador or a coach or a TV personality here for the Raptors. Give him whatever job he wants as long as it's not Ujiri's or Bobby's or Nick's job.

      He's the biggest Raptor success story we have. Hang his number high from the rafters and make sure no one ever forgets the name Kyle Lowry in Toronto and in Canada.

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      • Apollo wrote: View Post
        The more I think about it, personally I'd like for Kyle to retire as a Raptor. I'd rather keep him and not get that pick or prospect. The pick won't be that high and the prospect might not be that good, no better than a Stanley Johnson type player who needs a lot of work.

        Kyle has become the most important Raptors of all time in my view. He embodies all things I admire in a basketball player now they he can make shots in big games. I'd like for him to stay till the end and become an ambassador or a coach or a TV personality here for the Raptors. Give him whatever job he wants as long as it's not Ujiri's or Bobby's or Nick's job.

        He's the biggest Raptor success story we have. Hang his number high from the rafters and make sure no one ever forgets the name Kyle Lowry in Toronto and in Canada.
        Yeah, mostly my proposals to move him is because I don't think Lowry is interested in any of that.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Yeah, mostly my proposals to move him is because I don't think Lowry is interested in any of that.
          The chip might have changed things though. It sealed his legacy.

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          • DanH wrote: View Post

            Yeah, mostly my proposals to move him is because I don't think Lowry is interested in any of that.
            For the most part, I agree. But I also remember him saying a few years ago that he wanted a ring, and he got it. IMO, he looked the happiest out of everyone to win. Maybe, just maybe, he might be interested in taking a pay cut to stay on as a Raptor, and retire here.

            Even then, after his contract is finished here, given his age, what do you think he'd get offered in the open market? Is there any chance we would offer him something longer term, but with a lower AAV that might entice him?

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            • suspenders wrote: View Post

              For the most part, I agree. But I also remember him saying a few years ago that he wanted a ring, and he got it. IMO, he looked the happiest out of everyone to win. Maybe, just maybe, he might be interested in taking a pay cut to stay on as a Raptor, and retire here.

              Even then, after his contract is finished here, given his age, what do you think he'd get offered in the open market? Is there any chance we would offer him something longer term, but with a lower AAV that might entice him?
              Unless he'd take 10-15M as a backup PG and mentor, unfortunately I think Kyle will (and should) be gone. He's never been my favourite but I'd love to see him retire a Raptor now if he doesn't drag on team salary.

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              • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                Unless he'd take 10-15M as a backup PG and mentor, unfortunately I think Kyle will (and should) be gone. He's never been my favourite but I'd love to see him retire a Raptor now if he doesn't drag on team salary.
                It'd be hard to see another team offering him more than 15M / year, and to be a starting PG. But, I could be wrong.

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                • Apollo wrote: View Post
                  The more I think about it, personally I'd like for Kyle to retire as a Raptor. I'd rather keep him and not get that pick or prospect. The pick won't be that high and the prospect might not be that good, no better than a Stanley Johnson type player who needs a lot of work.

                  Kyle has become the most important Raptors of all time in my view. He embodies all things I admire in a basketball player now they he can make shots in big games. I'd like for him to stay till the end and become an ambassador or a coach or a TV personality here for the Raptors. Give him whatever job he wants as long as it's not Ujiri's or Bobby's or Nick's job.

                  He's the biggest Raptor success story we have. Hang his number high from the rafters and make sure no one ever forgets the name Kyle Lowry in Toronto and in Canada.
                  I would place a strong bet that Lowry is going to retire with the Sixers. With the team they have, it's setting up perfectly for him to choose them when he hits free agency next year.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    I would place a strong bet that Lowry is going to retire with the Sixers. With the team they have, it's setting up perfectly for him to choose them when he hits free agency next year.
                    Not sure.. 76ers are capped out and that's before they extend Simmons. Not sure they can afford anyone now unless Kyle goes there on a tax payer mid level (which is under $5M) or he signs on for a vet minimum or something.. which I doubt unless he's more like 35/36.

                    A S&T however is always a possibility. Maybe with Harris or something coming back.

                    Unless Kyle gives us a huge discount, I suspect Kyle will be in demand next summer.. I could see him getting another $25-28M contract. Like Horford just got. He's older but has a chip on his resume now.. and was pretty great in these past playoffs overall.



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                    • planetmars wrote: View Post

                      Not sure.. 76ers are capped out and that's before they extend Simmons. Not sure they can afford anyone now unless Kyle goes there on a tax payer mid level (which is under $5M) or he signs on for a vet minimum or something.. which I doubt unless he's more like 35/36.

                      A S&T however is always a possibility. Maybe with Harris or something coming back.

                      Unless Kyle gives us a huge discount, I suspect Kyle will be in demand next summer.. I could see him getting another $25-28M contract. Like Horford just got. He's older but has a chip on his resume now.. and was pretty great in these past playoffs overall.


                      That would be a hard pass from me. Difficult to say it so soon after the chip, but time to fully move on this season from the DeMar and Kyle days

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                      • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                        That would be a hard pass from me. Difficult to say it so soon after the chip, but time to fully move on this season from the DeMar and Kyle days
                        Yeah maybe for me too.. Kyle could be the best free agent in 2020. That's how weak the class is. Davis will stay with the Lakers. Perhaps Draymond will be the most in demand. But look at the list Kyle is competing with:

                        Draymond, DeMar, Hayward, Drummond, Conley, Harrell, Gordon.. not especially a hot market.

                        Al Horford turned 33 in June. He got $109M from Philly for 4 years.. and had other suitors too (like Dallas, Sacramento and NO apparently). Yeah Kyle will be in demand. And I think he gets something like $80M for 3 years from someone. A team like Orlando I bet would love to have him.

                        Here is a deadline move I'd like to make.. D'Angelo for Kyle. GSW will need to save some money to resign Draymond to a max. They can let Kyle walk or keep his bird rights to sign him back on a cheaper deal. Move Klay to SF, and have Curry/Kyle be their back court for the playoffs.

                        We get a young PG for the next 3 years locked up.

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                        • planetmars wrote: View Post

                          Not sure.. 76ers are capped out and that's before they extend Simmons. Not sure they can afford anyone now unless Kyle goes there on a tax payer mid level (which is under $5M) or he signs on for a vet minimum or something.. which I doubt unless he's more like 35/36.

                          A S&T however is always a possibility. Maybe with Harris or something coming back.

                          Unless Kyle gives us a huge discount, I suspect Kyle will be in demand next summer.. I could see him getting another $25-28M contract. Like Horford just got. He's older but has a chip on his resume now.. and was pretty great in these past playoffs overall.
                          I'm not totally sold on the Simmons-Embiid long term fit, especially in the playoffs. Simmons forces Embiid to play on the perimeter a lot, which is a waste. They might have to eventually trade one of them, and if it's Simmons, that opens up a spot for Lowry.

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                          • golden wrote: View Post

                            I'm not totally sold on the Simmons-Embiid long term fit, especially in the playoffs. Simmons forces Embiid to play on the perimeter a lot, which is a waste. They might have to eventually trade one of them, and if it's Simmons, that opens up a spot for Lowry.
                            They would still be capped out.. they have 3 big money contracts in Embiid, Harris and Horford. We saw what that looked like with the Raptors. We lose Kawhi and we still don't have cap space. It would have to be a S&T which would hard cap them. I agree in that Simmons/Embiid doesn't work, but they have talked about extending Simmons.. which would make him untradeable for the year.

                            Lowry may go to Philly one day.. but I don't think it will be next year.

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                            • planetmars wrote: View Post

                              They would still be capped out.. they have 3 big money contracts in Embiid, Harris and Horford. We saw what that looked like with the Raptors. We lose Kawhi and we still don't have cap space. It would have to be a S&T which would hard cap them. I agree in that Simmons/Embiid doesn't work, but they have talked about extending Simmons.. which would make him untradeable for the year.

                              Lowry may go to Philly one day.. but I don't think it will be next year.
                              If Lowry goes to Philly anytime soon, it's probably at the deadline this year. With Harris outgoing, either to the Raps or to a third team (I think the latter more likely).
                              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                              • There have been a few posters who have floated the idea of trying to get Hayward out of Boston. So lets say thats a recovery vector.

                                Hayward is a poor mans Kawhi Leonard. He is a strong wing player that can get his own shot. He can or could make 3's. He can get inside but not with the force Leonard did. He is a decent to good passer. He isn't the defensive player that Leonard is. .. Hell who is ?. BUt he gives you back that "kinda piece" that Leonard played but at roughtly 70 to 80% of what Kawhi did. Which is pretty fucking good.

                                So what would it cost to try to get him if slime merchant extraordinaire Danny Ainge finds himself at Christmas time with Tatum and Brown making huge strides and still a gaping whole in the bigs department in Chowderville ? A hole that if patched could get them to a contending spot in the East and get to the finals. ?

                                Its a leading question... but lets say Ainge wants to or sees he can get to the ECF and beyond.... Would he entertain a Gasol for Hayward trade.. He would but its not enough... the Raps would have to sweeten it... So the sweetner might be OG on a low cost deal or perhaps yet another 1st round pick. Lets say that Masai says yes... but to two second round picks....We would get Hayward under contract for this year only as he has a PO in 2020
                                So it happens even with the pitfalls. Raps are in.

                                The Line up then looks like

                                Serge / Boucher / Hernandez / Moreland
                                Pascal / Stanley Johnson
                                Hayward / OG / Hollis Jefferson
                                Norm / Meeks / Miller / Lllyod
                                Kyle / Freddy....


                                Maybe enough to win a spot in the ECF i'd say....but its also a deep team.... If you could add that greek guy in a years time... and Hayward stays... then things look promising....

                                Yes.. I am day drinking.
                                Last edited by Demographic Shift; Mon Jul 8th, 2019, 11:47 AM.

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