Tear It Down or Rebuild On The Fly?

[bertarapsfan]

I say we just roll this roster out for the first 20-30 games and see where we stand. if we look like a 3-4 seed keep the band together. you never know what playoff match ups may be or injurys can happen. we could only have to face 1 of Sixers or bucks and if things fall right could be right back in the eastern conference finals. we still have dude like fvv pascal Lowry Ibaka who all just played amazing on the biggest stage. even if you do blow it up your not going to get guys like fvv pascal and norm to lead a tank when they are coming off a championship. as constructed we are as good as indy and Boston. and have a long way to go to be worse then teams like ATL ny bulls maybe you fall beneath the Miami Orlando Detroit tier but that still isn't a good enough spot to warrant a full on tank

[TrueTorontoFan]

you guys watching summer league?

[inthepaint]

The focus should be on the summer of 2021.

In order to land impactful FA's that summer we need the cap space obviously, but we also need the aura/appeal/perception of a winning organization (otherwise you risking being like the Kicks, finishing off with a bunch of cap space but no one wanting to go there). Masai gradually and methodically changed the perception of who the Raptors are as an organization over the past 4-5 years, including bringing in a championship.

We're currently viewed as a winning organization, well-run front office, bright young coach, and a great place for young players to develop on a winning environment while playing well above their draft stock. Even our medical staff has a good reputation. That's awesome, but that's still relatively new and fragile. We tank and a lot of that perception is gone.

If we completely tank in 19-20 and in 20-21, that's 2 full seasons to attain good draft picks, but also 2 full seasons of bad basketball for the 2021 free agents to look at while they chose where to go.

On the other hand, we have valuable expiring contracts we can't ignore. Anyone thinking Lowry/Gasol/Ibaka wouldn't have much value is neglecting the fact that these are 2 starters and 6th man of the defending NBA champions. People can drool all the want over Kawhi Leonard, but we don't win this championship without Lowry & Gasol. These are incredibly intelligent players that would put any team close to contention over the hump (especially if they were on a package together), and likewise would make us a bad team real quick if we lost them. They'd have huge value under the right circumstances.

Personally, I'k ok with moving Lowry/Ibaka/Gasol if they're leaving for nothing next summer anyway, but I'd prefer to move them for prospects/picks that would make the team remain relevant and hungry over the 2020 and 2021 playoffs. I want someone like Giannis in 2021 to look at us and say "man, these guys won a chip a couple years ago, lost their best players, and yet stayed fighting, got younger, and have been to the playoffs 7 years straight now. They just need a top player to get back to the top, and they have the cap space for it".

[Apollo]

I'm not sold on this team being able to lure the kind of FA that makes them a legit contender. I think we all need to remember how slow this process was when Masai took over. He was criticized many times for not moving fast enough. He picks his spots wisely and so I would not be shocked if one or more of Kyle, Marc and Serge are moved for young guys or picks because for an executive like Masai who has set up a winning culture like this, the high returns is in young players and picks.

[G__Deane]

I'm not sold on this team being able to lure the kind of FA that makes them a legit contender. I think we all need to remember how slow this process was when Masai took over. He was criticized many times for not moving fast enough. He picks his spots wisely and so I would not be shocked if one or more of Kyle, Marc and Serge are moved for young guys or picks because for an executive like Masai who has set up a winning culture like this, the high returns is in young players and picks.

Based on what we've been seeing, without having another top 20 player on the roster or coming as a result of the signing, we won't attract an elite FA in 2021. It's possible that Pascal will be that guy but counting on it now is foolish imo.

2021 FA class includes:
lebron hard pass
Anthony Davis (wouldn't come here unless the LA experiment blows up large and even then he's be looking to bring someone IN especially if lebron retires), pass
Chris Paul pass
Paul George (same as Davis except the other LA team) pass
Hayward, Conley, DeRozan, Beal.....we're looking for franchise players here. Pass

The singular target, as it will be for most other teams is one Giannis Antetokounmpo. He's the hope that won't immediately hold Toronto as a tier two destination. He's the FA that we hope respects Masai even more than most. He's a guy coming from a cold weather city that isn't dying to play closer to home or wowed by LA or New York (we think).

He's got the best attitude in the NBA and doesn't appear to care about super teams and we know he doesn't want to pal around with the opposition; he's a team first not me-first guy. Love him.

But again, virtually every team is going be gunning for him. Masai's goal is to absolutely put uis in a place to be a contender with tons of cash to target two prime FA, one being Giannis, in any way possible.

Beal and Giannis here with Pascal, maybe Davis and Giannis if LA implodes, dare to dream; that's all we got right now. This is a contending team for the playoffs right now, not the finals.....and that's not good enough any more.

[Apollo]

Based on what we've been seeing, without having another top 20 player on the roster or coming as a result of the signing, we won't attract an elite FA in 2021. It's possible that Pascal will be that guy but counting on it now is foolish imo.

2021 FA class includes:
lebron hard pass
Anthony Davis (wouldn't come here unless the LA experiment blows up large and even then he's be looking to bring someone IN especially if lebron retires), pass
Chris Paul pass
Paul George (same as Davis except the other LA team) pass
Hayward, Conley, DeRozan, Beal.....we're looking for franchise players here. Pass

The singular target, as it will be for most other teams is one Giannis Antetokounmpo. He's the hope that won't immediately hold Toronto as a tier two destination. He's the FA that we hope respects Masai even more than most. He's a guy coming from a cold weather city that isn't dying to play closer to home or wowed by LA or New York (we think).

He's got the best attitude in the NBA and doesn't appear to care about super teams and we know he doesn't want to pal around with the opposition; he's a team first not me-first guy. Love him.

But again, virtually every team is going be gunning for him. Masai's goal is to absolutely put uis in a place to be a contender with tons of cash to target two prime FA, one being Giannis, in any way possible.

Beal and Giannis here with Pascal, maybe Davis and Giannis if LA implodes, dare to dream; that's all we got right now. This is a contending team for the playoffs right now, not the finals.....and that's not good enough any more.

Indeed, I think you're spot on. Toronto isn't a hot spot for American talent. They mostly don't view the opportunity as something great until they get here and even then some of them never "get it". I personally think it's a cultural thing that has more to do with them than Canada or Toronto. You see it in the media from them all the time. It was even more clear in the lead up to the playoffs, during the run and then the build up to FA period. Like half the media guys view Toronto as inferior because it's not in America. This isn't just isolated to media people obviously.

One thing the Raptors have going for them in the long term is the influx of Canadian talent into the league in recent years. Guys like Jamal Murray and RJ Barrett probably would love to be the man in Toronto and pull off something like Kawhi and the guys just did. Then the international players too get the appeal of Toronto. Toronto was on Porzingis' list of teams he gave the Knicks for example.

Giannis for sure is interesting. I don't know what he wants though. Has he mentioned Toronto before?

As for Beal. I like the idea but what would he cost?

[The Claw Reborn]

There are only 3 super elite talents in this league right now

Lebron
Kawhi
KD

Steph, Giannis and Anthony Davis are just hairline away from those three

so let us not fool ourselves that we can win the chip again without one or a combination of those guys.

If I am Ujiri, he has to position himself so he would have a chance to get Giannis in 2021.

[MixxAOR]

Should we stay competitive and wait for oportunity to strike on a trade like we did with Kawhi or just build through draft? I find myself being fine with both.

[RaptorsVictim]

Right now, we have a decent team, not a contender but a decent team. By the middle of the season trades can reshape us. I would recommend Massai stresses on international players.

[Puffer]

...One thing the Raptors have going for them in the long term is the influx of Canadian talent into the league in recent years. Guys like Jamal Murray and RJ Barrett probably would love to be the man in Toronto and pull off something like Kawhi and the guys just did. Then the international players too get the appeal of Toronto. Toronto was on Porzingis' list of teams he gave the Knicks for example...

I think this has got to be Masai's longer term plan. And I like that for the next couple of years all the top Canadian players will be playing for Nurse, at FIBA and hopefully at the Olympics. That's how players generate connections with other Canadian players and a possible coach. That plus targetting international players, chip on their shoulder players, prove 'm players and reconstituted players. A couple of really high talent Canadians though would be a great way to get started on the climb back up to the top.

[Apollo]

I think this has got to be Masai's longer term plan. And I like that for the next couple of years all the top Canadian players will be playing for Nurse, at FIBA and hopefully at the Olympics. That's how players generate connections with other Canadian players and a possible coach. That plus targetting international players, chip on their shoulder players, prove 'm players and reconstituted players. A couple of really high talent Canadians though would be a great way to get started on the climb back up to the top.

Excellent point about the connection Nurse will create with these young up and coming Canadian ballers.

Some day soon the American bias won't matter.

[Apollo]

Should we stay competitive and wait for oportunity to strike on a trade like we did with Kawhi or just build through draft? I find myself being fine with both.

Masai isn't a tear it down and hope for the best kind of guy. I could see some of Kyle, Marc and Serge being moved by the deadline though.

[Rudy Bargnani]

Obviously anything can happen in 2 years but an interesting thought on the free agency class of 2021:
A lot of the traditional big market teams won’t have cap space. Clippers will be locked into PG and Kawhi. Anthony Davis’s big contract will kick in next year assuming he stays with the Lakers. Lebron doesn’t strike me as the taking a pay cut kind of guy. Brooklynn is all in on Durant and Kyree. Houston is paying Chris Paul $40 million a year.

Assuming those guys all stay put, the traditional big markets will have their big two and won’t be in contention for Giannis

[Maury]

Obviously anything can happen in 2 years but an interesting thought on the free agency class of 2021:
A lot of the traditional big market teams won’t have cap space. Clippers will be locked into PG and Kawhi. Anthony Davis’s big contract will kick in next year assuming he stays with the Lakers. Lebron doesn’t strike me as the taking a pay cut kind of guy. Brooklynn is all in on Durant and Kyree. Houston is paying Chris Paul $40 million a year.

Assuming those guys all stay put, the traditional big markets will have their big two and won’t be in contention for Giannis

Don't forget the Knicks!

[Mitchell Duong]

As an Oilers fan. I do not advocate stripping it to the foundation and tanking. Its not fun and sometimes it never gets good.