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Where Do The Raptors Rank In The East?

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  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

    I see what your saying.... but consider this view for a minute. The Raps were struggling to score points. They went into droughts and while the defense was still good and kept them in most games they just weren't getting the production they needed with 3 or 4 of your best players on the shelf. So to compensate you have to make the most of every possession. One strategy might be to play a guy who doesn't turn the ball over and cut that variable out of play. You still gotta get points but at least your getting a crack at a basket (some good and some not so good) without turning it over.

    Edit.. look the guy thats going to get the minutes as the team coalesces when Freddy gets back is Davis. He is the better younger long term prospect.
    That is what everyone I think is annoyed with the coach continuous playing McCaw, he is taking minutes away from Davis. Last night was a prime example where McCaw played 25 minutes and Davis only 17. Are you telling me that Davis couldn't play 25 minutes, and McCaw the 17? I am afraid that once FVV comes back, Davis minutes will go down instead of McCaw. As for when the team was shorthanded and couldn't score, well part of the reason was because of McCaw's offense or lack of. Teams were helping off him, clogging the lanes and allowing him to do something, which majority of times was to pass back and rarely take a shot which teams would live with because he takes so little of (pretty sure he ranks last with FGA on the team).

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    • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

      With advanced stats you could make yourself transgender with enough analytics behind it.
      Counting ones... He plays 16 minutes on average in his career .. and HE turns it over less than once a night.
      Plausible answer to why Nurse plays him so much....
      Since no one here speaks to the coach directly we don't really know why he plays him. Advanced stats or not.
      It's really not. Tell anyone not to do anything on offence and they won't turn the ball over. By all measures, they'll actually turn it over less than McCaw does. Turnovers is a weakness for him, not a strength.

      Never mind his incredibly low usage. Can you guess, this season, among all players who average less than 17 minutes per game, what the absolute worst turnovers per game rate is? In the entire league?

      It's 1.0 turnovers per game. That's the worst turnovers per game of any player with that minutes load. In the league. Not a single one worse. So, congrats, Pat, on clearing that glorious bar. I'm sure this is the superhuman feat that has impressed Nurse to the point of sabotaging the team's chances of winning on a nightly basis.

      And you aren't kidding with us not knowing why Nurse plays him. I definitely don't know why he plays him. I'm pretty sure it's not his low turnover play, considering his high rate of turnovers relative to other players.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • nba_4_life wrote: View Post

          That is what everyone I think is annoyed with the coach continuous playing McCaw, he is taking minutes away from Davis. Last night was a prime example where McCaw played 25 minutes and Davis only 17. Are you telling me that Davis couldn't play 25 minutes, and McCaw the 17? I am afraid that once FVV comes back, Davis minutes will go down instead of McCaw. As for when the team was shorthanded and couldn't score, well part of the reason was because of McCaw's offense or lack of. Teams were helping off him, clogging the lanes and allowing him to do something, which majority of times was to pass back and rarely take a shot which teams would live with because he takes so little of (pretty sure he ranks last with FGA on the team).
          Davis brings more to the table in terms of upside than McCaw does as the assessment of who gets minutes in the playoffs based on regular season contribution. A lot more upside so I think between now and April Davis leads McCaw by a fair bit regardless of minutes played in the pecking order. Unless there is a trade we are pretty much assured we know who the seven man rotation is. If it’s expanded to go 8 or 9 deep it will be RHJ who takes some of OG’s minutes and Davis will be to help at the two guard for Norm and Freddy if or when called on.

          McCaw more out of necessity saw time as one of Freddy or Kyle have been out for stretches. He is a pro and he was the next guy up. You can only play who you got right.

          How many minutes McCaw plays as the 7th guy in January isn’t as big a deal as this past weeks time spent on it.

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          • DanH wrote: View Post

            It's really not. Tell anyone not to do anything on offence and they won't turn the ball over. By all measures, they'll actually turn it over less than McCaw does. Turnovers is a weakness for him, not a strength.

            Never mind his incredibly low usage. Can you guess, this season, among all players who average less than 17 minutes per game, what the absolute worst turnovers per game rate is? In the entire league?

            It's 1.0 turnovers per game. That's the worst turnovers per game of any player with that minutes load. In the league. Not a single one worse. So, congrats, Pat, on clearing that glorious bar. I'm sure this is the superhuman feat that has impressed Nurse to the point of sabotaging the team's chances of winning on a nightly basis.

            And you aren't kidding with us not knowing why Nurse plays him. I definitely don't know why he plays him. I'm pretty sure it's not his low turnover play, considering his high rate of turnovers relative to other players.
            He played him because he had to under the circumstances. McCaws a pro. He does what he can. The raps fortunes as a team aren’t heavily skewed or weighted plus or minus by Patrick mcccaw.

            This year’s bar for success has been raised from make playoffs and hope to get of round 2 to .......getting to ECF and with some luck maybe getting a chance to defend.

            McCaw and his minutes played in January isn’t A big deal. With Freddys near horizon return they will reduce substantially.

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            • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
              ...McCaw and his minutes played in January isn’t A big deal. With Freddys near horizon return they will reduce substantially.
              Yes, if there's a God in Heaven.

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              • We're pretty good.

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                • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                  We're pretty good.
                  We are pretty good indeed sir...pretty good indeed.




                  Last edited by Demographic Shift; Sat Jan 18th, 2020, 04:05 PM.

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                  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                    He played him because he had to under the circumstances. McCaws a pro. He does what he can. The raps fortunes as a team aren’t heavily skewed or weighted plus or minus by Patrick mcccaw.

                    This year’s bar for success has been raised from make playoffs and hope to get of round 2 to .......getting to ECF and with some luck maybe getting a chance to defend.

                    McCaw and his minutes played in January isn’t A big deal. With Freddys near horizon return they will reduce substantially.
                    Ah, I remember the glory days of being told that Scola starting midway through the season wasn't a big deal, and of being told that John Salmons getting minutes would never happen in the playoffs, and that there was no reason to worry that Lorenzo Brown would ever see the floor in a playoff series. The good old days.

                    I obviously have a lot more faith in Nurse than in Casey. But this trend is worrying and worth noting now. It's not that McCaw played when he had to - it's that he's played more than he had to at every point in the season, even when they were shorthanded, and more than other players who deserve the minutes more and would help the team more (Davis, for one, but also Miller, Thomas and Boucher, who could use PF minutes if RHJ played the 3 more, but he can't because McCaw takes up so many wing minutes).

                    It's wonderful that you can see that Davis should be ahead of McCaw come the playoffs. He should also be ahead of him for minutes now. And yet he is not. The concern is not whether Davis should obviously be ahead in the pecking order. He should. The concern is whether Nurse agrees with us.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post

                      Ah, I remember the glory days of being told that Scola starting midway through the season wasn't a big deal, and of being told that John Salmons getting minutes would never happen in the playoffs, and that there was no reason to worry that Lorenzo Brown would ever see the floor in a playoff series. The good old days.

                      I obviously have a lot more faith in Nurse than in Casey. But this trend is worrying and worth noting now. It's not that McCaw played when he had to - it's that he's played more than he had to at every point in the season, even when they were shorthanded, and more than other players who deserve the minutes more and would help the team more (Davis, for one, but also Miller, Thomas and Boucher, who could use PF minutes if RHJ played the 3 more, but he can't because McCaw takes up so many wing minutes).

                      It's wonderful that you can see that Davis should be ahead of McCaw come the playoffs. He should also be ahead of him for minutes now. And yet he is not. The concern is not whether Davis should obviously be ahead in the pecking order. He should. The concern is whether Nurse agrees with us.
                      That was then.
                      It’s a brand new team.

                      Talent rises to the top. Davis will show he can’t be sat with his play. He has to reduce his turnovers and he gets the nod.
                      Nurse hates turnovers more than he hates the the zebras.

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                      • yea the vibe I got/get is that Casey was stubborn and sticking with a lineup or rotation that clearly wasn't working but thought he was doing the right thing. I feel like Nurse knows exactly what's going on but is in experimental mode in the regular season and doesn't care if experiments fail in the regular season. I see a nutty professor who wants to build a defined sample size of minutes/lineup combos before shortening the rotation in the playoffs. Nurse has largely made good decisions so I trust that he'll get it right as the season moves on.

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                        • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                          yea the vibe I got/get is that Casey was stubborn and sticking with a lineup or rotation that clearly wasn't working but thought he was doing the right thing. I feel like Nurse knows exactly what's going on but is in experimental mode in the regular season and doesn't care if experiments fail in the regular season. I see a nutty professor who wants to build a defined sample size of minutes/lineup combos before shortening the rotation in the playoffs. Nurse has largely made good decisions so I trust that he'll get it right as the season moves on.
                          I honestly think they're trying to raise Mccaw's value before the trade deadline.
                          Official Pope of the Raptors sponsored by MLSE.

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                          • RandomGuy wrote: View Post

                            I honestly think they're trying to raise Mccaw's value before the trade deadline.
                            The best theory I’ve heard is that Nurse is playing McCaw a lot so that the team learns how to play through adversity.

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                            • I'll be honest... I don't see Davis getting more minutes in the playoffs. Rookies and young players tend to disappear in the playoffs when things matter.

                              Remember when Mo Pete had to sub in for Joey Graham halfway through the series against the Nets because Joey disappeared? Or when Jak was nowhere to be found against the Lebrons?

                              I actually trust Nurse though, but I can't see him giving Davis more minutes in the playoffs; McCaw for what its worth will provide low ceiling, but steady effort. Davis might be a complete wild card in the playoffs.

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                              • Truth Teller wrote: View Post
                                I'll be honest... I don't see Davis getting more minutes in the playoffs. Rookies and young players tend to disappear in the playoffs when things matter.

                                Remember when Mo Pete had to sub in for Joey Graham halfway through the series against the Nets because Joey disappeared? Or when Jak was nowhere to be found against the Lebrons?

                                I actually trust Nurse though, but I can't see him giving Davis more minutes in the playoffs; McCaw for what its worth will provide low ceiling, but steady effort. Davis might be a complete wild card in the playoffs.
                                If he gets mins in the playoffs it will as the 9 th guy in the rotation. So that points to garbage time if the raps are in a situation like that in the post season.

                                Still though..Davis has worked his way from an undrafted summer league signing to the 9th guy on an eastern conference playoff caliber team. That’s pretty good. Maybe even better than anyone taken in the first round past 20.

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