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Where Do The Raptors Rank In The East?

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  • slaw wrote: View Post

    I'm not sure anyone is arguing the Raptors are a better team but I do think many in the US media, in particular, are absolutely stunned that Toronto is this good without Kawhi and are amazed by the record (Nurse's interview on PTI was a good example). Teams just don't lose a guy like Kawhi and win more games the next season cause that isn't supposed to happen. Fans and media are talking about it cause it is a great story that should absolutely be celebrated regardless of what happens in the playoffs. Playoffs and championships are not the only things that matter.
    My expectations for the playoffs are not as high as last season, but I agree it can't be all about championships. It's just this constant comparison after every few increments of games is silly. We don't need to celebrate how good they are after every 5-10 games.

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    • slaw wrote: View Post

      14-11 would be a very good record against over .500 teams. Same record as the Clips and Rockets. Just not sure that number is correct.
      Perhaps it’s a reflection of the point in time when the game was played. A win against Memphis in November is a win against a sub 500 team..but a win today is a win against a plus 500 team. Depends when you play them.

      When it’s all said and done the East is a 6 team horse race and the horses are in 4 tiers.

      Top tier is occupied by the bucks. It’s unlikely they fall from this perch or anyone joins them in the reg season.

      Second tier will be a dogfight to the end for 2 and 3 between Raps and Chowders. Finishing 2nd is a huge advantage. 2 gets you Orlando or Brooklyn and not Indy. It also gets you home court in round 2 when the degree of opponent rises exponentially. Expect the Raps and Chowders to push hard in every game.

      Third tier will be as good a scrap as the second tier for home court between the Heat and Philly.

      Fourth tier is occupied by the Rodney Dangerfield no respect Pacers who stay there until Oladipo gets his legs under him.

      Hard to believe but there are only 26 to 28 games to go for these teams as the season closes in on the 3/4 pole.The run down the stretch will be almost as good as the first and second rounds of the playoffs.
      Last edited by Demographic Shift; Fri Feb 14th, 2020, 12:08 PM.

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      • The Raptors have struggled more against +.500 teams than the other top 5 or 6 teams in the league, there's quite a gap between Raps vs. field from that angle. The road wins bode well though and I've seen several really positive stats lately for Raps in late game, closing situations. That's huge, that's where a superstar usually helps you execute. If they can close out tight games in the playoffs....look out.
        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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        • S.R. wrote: View Post
          The Raptors have struggled more against +.500 teams than the other top 5 or 6 teams in the league, there's quite a gap between Raps vs. field from that angle. The road wins bode well though and I've seen several really positive stats lately for Raps in late game, closing situations. That's huge, that's where a superstar usually helps you execute. If they can close out tight games in the playoffs....look out.
          Championship team that won't fold for anybody.

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          • slaw wrote: View Post


            Where is that record from? ESPN's expanded standings has them at 9-12 and based on just a quick look at the standings I count 9 wins on my fingers. Even if you assume Brooklyn is going to be over .500 that's 12-13.

            Regardless, 14 of their last 27 games are against quality opponents, so there are plenty of good tests remaining.
            https://stats.nba.com/standings/#!?S...ection=margins
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • Another post that shows the Raptors are pretty typical among the top several playoff teams in terms of performance against other playoff teams. Only Milwaukee and Boston look really good by this metric, but even there they aren't exactly miles ahead of the pack.

              https://twitter.com/VivekMJacob/stat...65582875217920
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • Interesting and very different from the ESPN table. Guessing it's what DS noted above about how you determine which teams are "over .500 teams".

                More generally, I'm in the camp of don't really think Raps are outliers with their record and not sure it matters too much at this stage or is necessarily determinative of playoff success.

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                • Yeah every year this narrative comes up at this point in the season - "oh how come the Raptors can't be as good as beating the above .500 teams as they are vs the lower teams?" Well, precisely because if the teams above.500 were as easy to beat, they wouldn't be avove .500 in the first place. Every playoff team will have a record against other playoff teams that is more even compared to their overall record. It's supposed to be like that. This link above shows only the Bucks and Boston have fewer losses vs above .500 opponents than the Raps (Boston with only one fewer, would be tied if they didn't squeak by the Clippers in double OT last night)
                  ==Glad to have doubted the doubters==

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                  • LJ2 wrote: View Post
                    I really hate this season long comparison media and fans are doing of our record with/without Kawhi after XX number of games. We are not a better team without a top 3 player on the roster and no amount of wins are going to change that. Rap's are still a damn good team with championship mentality and toughness.
                    Perhaps more importantly (for league perception, etc), we might be a better team than the Clippers. Two losses in a row and Paul George out with a hammy.

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                    • inthepaint wrote: View Post

                      Lowry-OG-Siakam-Ibaka-Gasol lineup coming down the pipe. Ain't nobody scoring against that.
                      That's the Giannis stopper lineup for sure. Nurse is probably keeping that under wraps until the playoffs, even if we do get everybody back healthy after the AS break. Hopefully we get a few glimpses here and there before then.

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                      • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post

                        Perhaps more importantly (for league perception, etc), we might be a better team than the Clippers. Two losses in a row and Paul George out with a hammy.
                        There is zero question we are better team than the Clippers, without Kawhi on either team. It's crazy to think about how much we'd be the favorite to repeat right now if we still had him.

                        But, it is what it is. Sometimes you can feel like a wife who got cheated on, thinking "what could we have done differently", but rather than feel sorry for ourselves, I'm glad we've moved on
                        It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                        • So after Tatum's big game against LA the other night. The talking heads on ESPN are now calling him "Boston's best player" and "Top 5 player in the East" Lol.

                          I can name 10 players in the East that are better than Tatum.
                          Mamba Mentality

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                          • From Shams’ latest piece on The Athletic on the dysfunction between Beilein and the Cavs players. Full context:

                            Instead, multiple players began playing songs that included the word “thug” whenever Beilein was within earshot, sources said: Bone Thugz-n-Harmony’s “Thuggish Ruggish Bone” and Tupac’s “Thugz Mansion” among them. As the team boarded the bus a few days after the incident, one player was intentionally playing Trick Daddy’s “I’m a Thug” with Beilein a few feet away. Other players blasted songs with the word “thug” loudly during workouts in the facility. Players did this to make light of a very tough situation, according to one team source.
                            hilarious.
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • The team getting the most love coming out of the break is the Hinkies. Even after 54 games the tires are being pumped hard that they will turn it around ...buy or sell.

                              The Rockets are all in on small ball and 7 seconds or less offence. Is it going to be workable or even sustainable in the post season that mak s the rockets a contender (out of the second round) in the west? .....buy or sell.

                              The Clippers are still being touted as the team to come out of the west to the finals despite questions on their depth( Reggie Jackson a difference maker puh-leeze) and Paul George being nicked up more often than not......buy or sell?

                              Despite the injury to Damian Lillard the Portland Trailblazers are not dead and catch the Grizz for 8th? ..buy or sell the Blazers?

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                              • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post
                                The team getting the most love coming out of the break is the Hinkies. Even after 54 games the tires are being pumped hard that they will turn it around ...buy or sell.

                                The Rockets are all in on small ball and 7 seconds or less offence. Is it going to be workable or even sustainable in the post season that mak s the rockets a contender (out of the second round) in the west? .....buy or sell.

                                The Clippers are still being touted as the team to come out of the west to the finals despite questions on their depth( Reggie Jackson a difference maker puh-leeze) and Paul George being nicked up more often than not......buy or sell?

                                Despite the injury to Damian Lillard the Portland Trailblazers are not dead and catch the Grizz for 8th? ..buy or sell the Blazers?
                                Sixers-Stand, Regular season they are who the team we have seen all season. They get up for big games and give away easy ones. For philly it will all depend on matchups in playoffs. A bad matchup round 1 and they could be done. The cards fall right and they could still see the ECF. Still think they are a worse team then last year, Jimmy and Reddick were perfect complimentary piece. Tobias and Horford signing are already looking bad and they didn't look that great when the happened in the first place.

                                Rockets- Kind of like the Sixers playoffs depend on matchups. Nugs and Jazz could serve an early packing while a Dallas/OKC should be a 6 game win. They actually match up pretty good vs the L.A teams. The played both really well and neither are going to abuse in the post. Buy

                                Clips- Buy Kawhi is the best player in the league and he doesn't even try in the regular season. I would say the are the best west team but the 0 home game vs the lakers could kill them. Lots of bodies to throw at Lebron which will be the key. AD has yet to show he shows up in prime time

                                Portland-Sell, was out on portland pretty early. They underestimated how important leonard, harkless and aminu were. Dame surge as of late had a bit of hope in portland but with the injury its to little to late. Memphis has proved who they are, they are for real. 4 games is alot to make up in 27 games and even with dame. Pelicans and spurs are both coming up on their tails. Wouldnt be surprised to see portland finish 10th.
                                To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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