Where Do The Raptors Rank In The East?

[slaw]

What sort of numbers is Fred looking for in a long term deal? Say we have a future starting line-up of FVV, OG, Siakam, Giannis, Ibaka....what would be a reasonable offer for FVV?

Won't he get something like Brogdon did from the Pacers? It's hard to find really good comps for FVV cause he's an unusual case.....

Ultimately, I'm not sure the dollars matter too much. Raps sign him and if they need to clear room for a big 2021 FA then you trade him. Don't see them letting him walk.

[KeonClark]

If Fred takes a one year deal, I'd bet it requires a maximum salary. And even then it would be shocking if he took it.

His max will be on the order of about 29M (same as Pascal). If he has a multi-year offer on the table above 20M, can't imagine he'd be interested in that. If the offers are more on the order of 15M, maybe he cashes in and sees if he can up that amount the year after, but even then I'm not sure if the early pay day would outweigh a long term deal.

Fred is a very intelligent guy, invested in winning, and the city. I could easily see him working around keeping max space for 2021 in a win win 1 year deal. He's all about the "bet on yourself" thing anyways, take another step next year and sign a multi year max in 21. When you get Masai and Fred in a room, he'll be smart enough to see the forest through the trees

[planetmars]

What sort of numbers is Fred looking for in a long term deal? Say we have a future starting line-up of FVV, OG, Siakam, Giannis, Ibaka....what would be a reasonable offer for FVV?

Rozier and Brogdon are probably the best comps. Both were back ups that wanted to run their own show. Charlotte gave Rozier $58 over 3 years. Brogdon got $85 over 4. So about $20M per. Brogdon was an RFA so was potentially worth more so that the Bucks wouldn't match the offer sheet.

The 2020 class is very weak though. So Fred could be the belle of the ball.

[slaw]

Rozier and Brogdon are probably the best comps. Both were back ups that wanted to run their own show. Charlotte gave Rozier $58 over 3 years. Brogdon got $85 over 4. So about $20M per. Brogdon was an RFA so was potentially worth more so that the Bucks wouldn't match the offer sheet.

The 2020 class is very weak though. So Fred could be the belle of the ball.

And who the hell knows what happens this offseason. A few western teams that thought they were contenders will be out in the second round (or maybe even the first) and at least one or two Eastern teams will be sorely disappointed as well. Some other Western teams will be looking to get to the playoffs and at least a couple of younger Eastern teams may be looking to build out. They all won't stand still. Not saying it will be 2019 crazy but you never know.....

[JawsGT]

I hope if the raps get giannis, they dont use him in the same way the bucks do. I think he has the ball in his hands too much. Obviously, that can be successful, but i think what the bucks lack the most is a ball handler capable of running PnR with giannis as the screener. Should have kept brogdan. With the way defences are just sagging in the paint and daring giannis to shoot, they need more options offensively. I think there is alot that can be done with giannis off ball, as long as he is involved in the action and not expected to space the floor. If the raps can sign him and retain fred or get another capable ball handler, add that to pascal and thats plenty of ball handling in a starting unit, reducing the need for giannis to handle the ball as much as he does now with the bucks.

[Demographic Shift]

Looking ahead....after the Sacto game the Raps leave on the first western roadie of the season.
They get Nawlins, both LA teams on a back to back, old raptors west in Portland and finish it off in Dallas against Doncic.

So..in order this to me says good trip.

1. They beat both LA teams on the road. It’s the weeereeee baaaaaack statement of the season.
2. They go 3 up and 2 down. Good trip.
3. They go 2 up and 3 down. OK...but work to do.
4. They go 1 and 4. GLF like concerns begin to dot threads.
5. They go 0 and 5 . Finger pointing begins. Threads are laced with trade everyone and fire those you can’t trade themes and memes.

I will take outcomes 2 and 3.
I might trade my dog for option 1.

[Puffer]

Looking ahead....after the Sacto game the Raps leave on the first western roadie of the season.
They get Nawlins, both LA teams on a back to back, old raptors west in Portland and finish it off in Dallas against Doncic.

So..in order this to me says good trip.

1. They beat both LA teams on the road. It’s the weeereeee baaaaaack statement of the season.
2. They go 3 up and 2 down. Good trip.
3. They go 2 up and 3 down. OK...but work to do.
4. They go 1 and 4. GLF like concerns begin to dot threads.
5. They go 0 and 5 . Finger pointing begins. Threads are laced with trade everyone and fire those you can’t trade themes and memes.

I will take outcomes 2 and 3.
I might trade my dog for option 1.

Put me down for door #2. I just got back to hooping after a three week break for injured ribs and I was killing it, so I am in a good mood.

[LJ2]

It's early to be watching the standings, but would be nice if Utah can help us out by beating Philly tonight. Hopefully the Kawhi-less Clippers can give the Bucks a run for their money tonight as well.

[Demographic Shift]

It's early to be watching the standings, but would be nice if Utah can help us out by beating Philly tonight. Hopefully the Kawhi-less Clippers can give the Bucks a run for their money tonight as well.

Never too early for standings watch

Yeah Philly started well but their roadie has been really tough...
They could come home 1 and 3... with the only win coming off a Furkan Korkmaz 3-pointer with 0.4 seconds left in Portland.
They get Utah tonight and follow it up with Denver...no one is resting tonight for Utah and Denver doesn't do that either.

Embiid has sat his two games so he should be ready for tonight and Friday.
Still its two road games at altitude for the Cardio King against two really really solid teams in the West.

I think we get this particular road tour later in the year. Yeesh.

[KeonClark]

Looking ahead....after the Sacto game the Raps leave on the first western roadie of the season.
They get Nawlins, both LA teams on a back to back, old raptors west in Portland and finish it off in Dallas against Doncic.

So..in order this to me says good trip.

1. They beat both LA teams on the road. It’s the weeereeee baaaaaack statement of the season.
2. They go 3 up and 2 down. Good trip.
3. They go 2 up and 3 down. OK...but work to do.
4. They go 1 and 4. GLF like concerns begin to dot threads.
5. They go 0 and 5 . Finger pointing begins. Threads are laced with trade everyone and fire those you can’t trade themes and memes.

I will take outcomes 2 and 3.
I might trade my dog for option 1.

Part of me wants to load manage the clipper game. Sit Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka. Just a cheeky little wink to an old friend.

[LJ2]

Too much pride on our team for any of the guys to sit out against Kawhi.

[Demographic Shift]

Not quite 10 games in and quite a few things that at least to me are worth thinking about.

1. The East is not very deep. Once you get by the the Bucks, Hinkies, Raps, Chowders and The Heat (fuck u Scraptor you look to be right on the Heat finishing up there ) there are a lot of very vanilla humdrum 500ish teams before you get to the tank brigade. Indy might still be be upwardly mobile .. but teams like the Pistons, Hawks and Nets look to be 500. teams.

2. Serious disappointments early on are the Bulls and the Magic. The Bulls were expecting, internally, to be much better than the less than robust 3 and 6 start they have posted up. That meltdown against the Lakers was especially telling. They have to unload Zach Levine who is the poster child of volume scorerers who don't play defense. When it matters the Bulls so far still look like team pogey. The Magic have fallen flat on their asses out of the gate. Steve Clifford is a good coach and he has some talent. A players only meeting can't be to far off. They are better than what they have shown. Lots of big contracts with term handed out ... Time to show.

3. The Nets despite the hype are looking to be a typical Kyrie Irving team. Why would things change ? He posts big numbers and they still lose..The package deal also included DeAndre Jordan to get Durant and Irving but .. well.. he is past it. He is now hurt to boot. Jared Allen will be the first string C before the year is out. The clock on the Nets starts next year when Achilles man gets back on the floor.

4. Its still early.. not all polls reporting... and while the Bucks and Hinkies are still almost lead pipe cinches to be 1 and 2 in the east ... they just not might be as dominant as they have been talked up. The Hinkies could come back 1 and 3 from a team testing western road trip. Embiid hasn't dumped the class clown act. Some might think this is to harsh.. but ask yourself... when was the last time Lebron or Curry or Giannas got a two game suspension for being a preening selfish dork. Never. Thats one reason why the Hinks are vulnerable, The other is unforseen circumstances and under that file is Ben Simmons getting his shoulder hurt. He may be out a while or he could be back next week. Time will tell.

The Bucks will begin to pick up momentum but they don't look to be as good as last years model. They are going to miss Brogdon a shit tonne in the playoffs when Hill and Beldsoe do the full Chris Angell and disappear. Kris Middleton is Demar DeRozan and he will very likely blow more cold than hot in the playoffs. Still they have the Alphabet and Giannas looks to be all world again... but the Bucks can be had.

5.The Knicks have a player in RJ Barrett. They also appear to have no one else. They have 6 1st round picks in the next 4 years. Do you make a bit of a move to get someone other than Julius Randle and Bobby Portis to help Barrett along or do you make him suffer for a season while positioning yourself with more players on the same timeline.. I think Kenny Knox is going to be a bust.

6. Where are the Pacers ? Turner got hurt and Olidipo is still a couple of months away from suiting up ...but this team isn't performing to expectations. Kevin Pritchard is a good GM. Will he make a move so the Pacers dont have to make up to much ground in the race they expected to be in for home court in the East.

7. Out West the Pelicans for all the preseason hype are still in NBA terms "a team on the rise" .Which translated to English mean they are have a lot of young players who have promise but still make egregious mistakes and blow games. They aren't getting to the post season. One bright light.for the Zion-less Pellys is Brandon Ingram. He is having all star type season so far. If the Raps had this kid at SF they vault themselves to contender status. He is an RFA nezt year. We can dream.

8. The Clips are a very good team with Kawhi. Without him.. well.. you can without doubt ask questions of the supporting cast. Lou Williams is a volume sorcerer and the Bucks put in a defense for him. Yes he chalked up 30 plus last night.. but is was on a Rudy Gay like 9 of 27 shooting night. Paul George has yet to play a minute but the Clips are going to be there.

9. The Jazz are built for the playoffs. They are going to play a half court offense all season long that is going to be whirring come May. They have a rim protector in Gobert and they have moxie with Ingles. No one wants to draw these guys in round 2.

10. Denver has had a slow start but have a game upcoming with the Hinkies that they will win and in NBA-esse they get a signature win.

11. Lebron is finally confirming genetics is a real science. LBJ is almost 35 and embarking on his 17 year.and Lebron is starting to look his age. Its Lebron though so he is still really really good. Just not the guy that could beat really good teams all by himself anymore. And ones are now just two free throws on those soul crushing drives to the basket. Lebrons mortality aside it the Lakers haven't beat anyone of signficance outside of Utah at home. Wins against the Bulls, Hornets Memphis and Kings are required but not measuring sticks. Of the next 3 they get the very physical Heat , the don't beat themselves Raptors and the so far surprising Suns on the road. Lets see how they do. So far AD is playing really well and hasn't missed any time.

12. The Phoenix Suns so far, despite losing DeAndre Aayton to suspension for juicing, have played really well. They are 5 and 2 and while there is time for the Suns to Sun.... right now they are getting the benefit of having two good vets in Baynes and Rubio helping them close games they usually lost down the stretch. In his 5th year.. will Devin Booker finally play a meaningful game ?

13. Are the Rockets best days behind them ? D'Antoni ball is feast or famine. If the 3s are falling they look great.. but when they don't .. They look like the Knicks... I think they make the dance and are out in the first round. Russel Westbrook has a way to go in fitting in. I wonder if this costs both Morey and D'Antoni their jobs this year.

14. The Golden State Warriors will be a lottery team this year. After 5 straight finals appearances where they won 3 .. the Warriors are stick a fork in them done for this season. You could have made a ton of money at this time last year betting on this yet it will work out for them. They add a top 10 pick this year and get back Thompson and Curry for next year. Sorta like the Spurs when they got Duncan after Robinson was out for the year. .

15. Dallas has got out the gate quickly. Luca Doncic is the real thing but pretty soon he will have to stop questioning and whinning to the officials on every single play. Its tiresome. If people who watch games from a chair in the den are noticing this .. the NBA officials are as well. Non stop kevetching aside Doncic is good enough along with the Zinger to get Dallas to the playoffs.

16. To me anyway the Portland Trailblazers are what the Raps were when Lowry and Demar were at their peak. A pretty good team with two serious talents in Lillard and McCollum that probably will never have enough to get farther than the WCF. They appear to be yet again on their ground hog day trajectory of making the playoffs and going out in the second round as their ceiling. The NBA is a cruel league.

17. Biggest surprises.. The Suns and Mavs. .... BIggest disappointments vis a vis expectations are the Warriors Kings Pelicans and Nets.

18. Bold Rap prediction. The Raps make a trade..but not to divest a vet for picks or a prospect.. they make a trade that adds a SF who can get his own shot.

As always E&OE.
Full rebuttals and questions on my sanity are welcomed

[slaw]

I don't know DS, it's awful early to draw conclusions about much of anything..... Sixers are in the middle of their first early season test out West and are 1-2 and a Simmons injury in the bag. Celtics are off to one of their hot starts but we'll see what happens 40 games in. Bucks look fine. Raps are sloppy and razor thin with their depth but are winning. Heat got blown out in Denver and have Lakers and Suns to go, so we'll see more this week. Bulls are bad. Not sure about the Magic yet. Knicks are horrible. Pistons will be better once Griffin is 100%. Nets are scuffling for now. Lots of time left.

[Demographic Shift]

I don't know DS, it's awful early to draw conclusions about much of anything..... Sixers are in the middle of their first early season test out West and are 1-2 and a Simmons injury in the bag. Celtics are off to one of their hot starts but we'll see what happens 40 games in. Bucks look fine. Raps are sloppy and razor thin with their depth but are winning. Heat got blown out in Denver and have Lakers and Suns to go, so we'll see more this week. Bulls are bad. Not sure about the Magic yet. Knicks are horrible. Pistons will be better once Griffin is 100%. Nets are scuffling for now. Lots of time left.

All good observations... but as to being early... Its a ~10% sample size. Enough of a base to make some reasonable predictions.

Raps are sorting out who is going to play the 8 or 9 and possibly 10th roles. Leaving for the roadie it looks like its Davis Boucher and Moore are the deep rotation players. They truly don't make much of a difference so far. Who knows if they have those spots coming back off the road.
.
So far Johnson and Hollis Jefferson appear to have done the equivalent of losing Nurses dog after he asked them to look after it. Not a sniff of court time.
The road might give them a chance to supplant the current 8 ,9 and 10 slots.

[DogeLover1234]

I dont know how good Indy can be, but they are fun to watch. Sabonis specifically has a rare combination of skill and physicality with fluid movement on offense, which is really fun to watch. Its just so hard to fit him into a really good team for 30 minutes due to below average defense, but he can sure be on a fun team.