Rank your top SGs.

[Jordan Evans]

And I don't know what games you have been watching.

The things I am saying are nothing new

Am I saying he's a good defender? No. But his defense is not a big problem for us. He's decent. Be grateful he doesn't have James Harden's atrocious defense.

[OldSkoolCool]

I don't know what drugs you've been taking.

And I don't know what games you have been watching.

The things I am saying are nothing new

[Jordan Evans]

No. He normally fails as a team defender with poor rotations and even worse close outs, as well as he lets people blow by him (not as often as in the past) which leaves our bigs out to dry. He is a big problem defensively.

I don't think we can win anything with him playing significant minutes in the playoffs

I don't know what drugs you've been taking.

[007]

No. He normally fails as a team defender with poor rotations and even worse close outs, as well as he lets people blow by him (not as often as in the past) which leaves our bigs out to dry. He is a big problem defensively.

I don't think we can win anything with him playing significant minutes in the playoffs

Well, okay then.

Very pessimistic.

[OldSkoolCool]

Does Derozan need to be an above average individual defender?

If he has good defensive rating and win shares doesn't that show that he is a good team defender?

No. He normally fails as a team defender with poor rotations and even worse close outs, as well as he lets people blow by him (not as often as in the past) which leaves our bigs out to dry. He is a big problem defensively.

I don't think we can win anything with him playing significant minutes in the playoffs

[007]

Does Derozan need to be an above average individual defender?

If he has good defensive rating and win shares doesn't that show that he is a good team defender?

[BigCamB]

Yet you're still crazy to call him as good at defense as people like Wes Matthews, who completely shut down Harden in the playoffs and has always been a plus defender, although this wasn't his best year overall to my (useless) knowledge. also, Klay is an excellent defender too (highly underrated, where as his O is probably a tad overrated) who always guards the other teams best guard and does it well.

1. Harden
2. Wade
3. DeRozan

Rest of the list would take far too much effort given I'm on holiday in Norway and already a total nerd for being here in the first place

[Joey]

Defensive metrics are very flawed. DD is not as good of a defender as the metrics say. If you think he is way better than Tony Allen, or as good as Igoudala and Batum because the metrics say so....well I don't know what to say.

I think its more the other way around; It's not so much you convincing me he's not as good a defender as those guys, because he's not, I'm realistic, I get that (though Batum isn't all that spectacular himself, from what I've seen). But Demar clearly better than you are giving him credit for. That's all. Nothing to do with those other players. But more so you acknowledging he's not a terrible defender. Because he's not. Regardless of how many times you say it. Yes, he's average, but hey, that's something to work with.

[OldSkoolCool]

I think he is at least as good a defender as Matthews, KThompson and BBeal, ya.



By useless do you mean "Don't reflect your opinion"?



And your biased opinions have their limits.
Perhaps Demar just IS a better defender than you give him credit for. Perhaps.
No, he's not a world stopper; but he's also not the useless piece of shit you make him out to be.

While you're criticizing my basketball intelligence, yours is seriously being called into question by your conclusion that Dion Waiters is better than Derozan.

Defensive metrics are very flawed. DD is not as good of a defender as the metrics say. If you think he is way better than Tony Allen, or as good as Igoudala and Batum because the metrics say so....well I don't know what to say.

Waiters is an opinion. I think he will be the better SG of the two by next season. He is extremely talented and carried a pretty miserable Cleveland team whenever Kyrie was down for the count. Waiters is a better shooter (who suffers from bad shots, like DD), passer, ball handler and driver than DD. I suggest watching some game footage of his ability to pass and compare it to DD's and form an opinion.

As for Dion's "Poisonous Locker-room".

Also another player that should be in conversations on that list is Kyle Korver. Dude put together a fantastic season. Though I don't know how much time he played as a SF

[imanshumpert]

I do wonder why so many love Lance though, when he over dribbles and freezes out his teammates more than DeMar could ever hope to.

This guy has Iverson's mentality with the actual ability of a much, much lesser player. That is a problem imo.

[imanshumpert]

So happy that someone finally has these guys in relevant conversation. Also Klay is a better defender than people think.

My top 10 (no Kobe, he would be #1)

1) Wade
2) Manu
3) Stephenson
4) Beal
5) Thompson
6) Matthews
7) Harden
8) Waiters
9) DeRozan
10) Crawford


Before I get flamed, let me explain.

1 - If the player also played relevant levels of defense, they were automatically put ahead of players that didn't.

For example, Wes Matthews is no where near Harden's offensive prowess, but his ability to play defense still makes him more of a plus player than Harden, hence a higher ranking.

Manu and Wade are not prototypical shut down defenders, however they were both plus defenders on amazing defensive teams, plus their body of work just puts them on top of all the young guys on that list ftm.

2 - I also valued the players ability to be a guard (ie ball handler and playmaker) more than a scorer. This is why I have Stephenson and Beal (better playmakers/ball handlers) above Thompson and Matthews (scorers). This is also why I put Waiters above DD, even though they are equally mediocre defensively. I think players who can penetrate and get into the paint at will are extremely valuable (see Tony Parker's career)

EDIT: I forgot Dragic, who has played SG and been a force all year. I think I would put him in at 5

At least the other 6 guys you ranked ahead of DD you can make an argument for them.

Wade and Manu are all-time greats obviously.

Lance has that all-around game with rebounding, assists and defense.

Bradley Beal can defend at a high level and shoot the 3 (although he's less efficient than DeRozan)

Klay Thompson is a better defender and shoots the basketball better.

Wes Matthews is an elite defender and shooter, also does a good job at other things as well. Great finisher too

Harden is an offensive superstar.

But Waiters man? Come on. Like there is just no argument for Waiters being better than DeRozan. This is where you just totally lose me man it doesn't make sense. He's less efficient, isn't as good of a playmaker (yes he has nicer handles but doesn't really do a lot of positive things with them except turn it over and freeze out teammates), he's a locker room problem, he's a minus defender, etc. Like dude come the fuck on for real.

[Joey]

Nobody here ever defends DD.

Do you have me on ignore? LOL That's like all I ever do around here!

[Joey]

Can you honestly look me in the eye and say DD is a better defender than Wes Matthews, Klay Thompson or Bradley Beal? Or Wade or Ginobli?

Did you know DD (3.0) has a higher DWS than Tony Allen (2.1) and Ross (2.2)? And is nearly at the same level as Batum (3.1) and Igoudala (3.1)?

I think he is at least as good a defender as Matthews, KThompson and BBeal, ya.

Did you know that defensive metrics are completely useless?

By useless do you mean "Don't reflect your opinion"?

Wish people would stop using defensive metrics to defend DD and rely on their basketball intelligence to come to an accurate conclusion. Advanced metrics have their limits, please don't lose sight of that.

And your biased opinions have their limits.
Perhaps Demar just IS a better defender than you give him credit for. Perhaps.
No, he's not a world stopper; but he's also not the useless piece of shit you make him out to be.

While you're criticizing my basketball intelligence, yours is seriously being called into question by your conclusion that Dion Waiters is better than Derozan.

[yabadabayolo]

I believe the title of this thread is "Rank YOUR top SG"

In MY list, Waiters is better than DD.

Deal with a differing opinion.

Put it this way, if you drop waiters in the place of derozan on this team, they wouldnt crack 34 wins. Put demar on the cavs and they get atleast 4 more wins. LAST season there is no way waiters is better than DD. DD was obviously better

[OldSkoolCool]

Nobody here ever defends DD. And honestly, your list is all wrong. Rank the top SG's. No way an all star like DeRozan is ranked lower than 'Dion Waiters'. Your list is going by defense and that would be okay if we were talking about the best defensive SG's but we're not.

I believe the title of this thread is "Rank YOUR top SG"

In MY list, Waiters is better than DD.

Deal with a differing opinion.