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  • #16
    Ultimate goal should be maximizing the ability to land a high-end free agent in 2021. For that, I think you need 3 things basically:

    1. Cap Space
    2. Winning Culture
    3. Another star to pair it (preferably young and on the rise or at its prime)

    We should have the cap space (unless they get greedy in the summer of 2020 and sign low-end players that will muck up the 2021 cap sheet)

    Winning culture will be preserved if we maintain Lowry/Serge/Gasol or at least 2 of them. If we make the playoffs in 2020 and 2021, Raptors will have made the playoffs for 7 years in a row, including a championship and an ECF appearance. I think that's the kinda culture/identity Masai is trying to build, to hopefully finally one day be able to attract and retain free-agents. It may not seem that important at times but that's part of the reason a Durant/Irving pairing go the Nets and not the Knicks. That said, if the right trade is available, you move the expirings. If it's just for a meh return though, retaining a winning culture becomes more valuable imo.

    The star to pair it, you hope its Siakam. If the cap space is large enough though, you might be able to attract 2 FA's (not necessarily 2 max players, but two high end guys), and retain Siakam.

    2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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    • #17
      inthepaint wrote: View Post
      Ultimate goal should be maximizing the ability to land a high-end free agent in 2021. For that, I think you need 3 things basically:

      1. Cap Space
      2. Winning Culture
      3. Another star to pair it (preferably young and on the rise or at its prime)...

      That said, if the right trade is available, you move the expirings. If it's just for a meh return though, retaining a winning culture becomes more valuable imo.

      The star to pair it, you hope its Siakam. If the cap space is large enough though, you might be able to attract 2 FA's (not necessarily 2 max players, but two high end guys), and retain Siakam.
      I think this is a nice summation. I hope OG has a breakthrough year and shows a steady progression of what we have seen glimpses of.

      It would be nice if Fred moves to another level and makes better decisions with the ball, and a lot quicker. I would also like to see 1 or more of the Undesireables (the undrafted, the forgotten, the hard luck kids) show a little sumthin sumthin this season. I would be okay with a trade deadline movement of a proven vet (Marc or Serge) particularly if one of the younger fellas showed they can partially fill the hole if if brings back a younger prospect or a bloated expiring low impact player and a pick at 15 or so. A team that thinks they have a shot and needs Marc or Serge to add some rim protection and scoring to make a push for the conference finals. Raptors wind up with two picks next spring, a chance for the bench to get extended minutes, maybe the second round and are in better shape for 2021.

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      • #18
        it depends on the value of the return of course but man it would depress the hell out of me if we traded the greatest player in franchise history for a bad expiring contract and two second rounders to avoid "losing the asset for nothing." and i don't see a massive haul being available for our guys.

        no we're not winning a title with next years team. but we could win 50 games, finish in the 3-5 seed, and push a team in the second round. there's dignity in that.

        start rebuilding proper next summer (or the next) around pascal and a fresh cap sheet. that's my preference.
        Last edited by chris; Wed Jul 31, 2019, 10:36 PM.

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        • #19
          I will give my opinion first then go back and read the responses.

          I think we need to play it out. I think the team comes back hungry and confident. They know how to do it. Being a champion really changes things. I think we can beat the east and make it to the finals again but it will be tough. I also think we could easily make the conference finals and lose to the bucks or sixers depending on how the standings shake out. For example if the bucks and sixers face eachother like we faced the sixers this year .... that will lead to a tough second round match up.


          I am excited to see a fully integrated marc and kyle work together. I am excited to see marc have a bigger role in our offence without being the number 1 option. I don't think he is a number one option anymore, however running the offence through him every third play works wonders. He can also fully run the second unit.


          Here is my other reasons for wanting to run it out. Realistically, the only way you make a trade is if you either get off Powells contract for first rounders (I doubt it and he is still young enough to be a solid starter), or you get first rounders plus bad contracts (expiring no later then the following season) for lowry and gasol... I doubt that we get that. If we some how get that kind of package.. you take it. No team is going to be giving us solid young talent for an expiring lowry. MAYBE ibaka but even then probably not. Same with Gasol. Lowry and Gasol are too expensive and too old to fetch someone who is 20-25 and who is worth taking a look at and the only way we get picks is by taking on salary.. but the year we are targeting is the year that every SMART team should be targeting. Its the same year as Kawhi and George (they aren't leaving but still), Giannis, CJ Mccollum if im not mistaken, oladipo, and more.

          So yeah. Unless you get a solid return you run the clock out... You work out short term deals during the year for lowry and gasol as a possibility... or you run it out and tank the following year and start fresh. I'd almost want to keep lowry moving forward and let him retire and just ask him secretly when he thinks he is going to retire because he is smart enough to run a competent offence for a long time and be a great player for a long time. If he is ok with slowly transitioning towards a bench role. Realistically, I don't think anyone sees FVV as the future starting point guard of this team. I'd be OK with it but he is better as a back up honestly.

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          • #20
            G__Deane wrote: View Post
            "Would interest drop off if three of the top five players were traded away for picks at the trade deadline on February 6th?"
            3/4 of the "current" Raptor fans are bandwagon fans who will fade away this season and couldn't really care less about a 3rd or 4th place finish in the East and a first or second round exit. The arena will still sell out but the TV ratings are dropping through the floor, perhaps less than the Kyle/DD days.

            They (we) expect more now. I'll still enjoy basketball but I want to dream about ECF and Finals again and I realistically can't with this roster. MLSE won't give up the playoff revenue or go full rebuild after the Chip but I'd look at trading Kyle, Gasol and Serge if the return was high end talent that matches up with and Siakam and OG's emergence/development. And I still don't think that elite telent is coming here as a FA

            Just being real (buzzkill) here.
            Elite talent is coming here... Just not yet. RJ Barrett would totally come in my opinion. I also do think we have a solid solid chance of Giannis. That said we have to remain a competent team to attract him.

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            • #21


              golden wrote: View Post

              We'll never know, but I'm skeptical how real that scenario actually was.
              Honestly even that... It wasn't a good idea. We were basically giving up Siakam for 2 more years. Would we have repeated.. YES... would kawhi have stayed after two years... probably not because the difference between what we could have offered and clippers/ lakers would have been so small he would have just left. So in my mind I dont think it would have been a good idea. Not to mention he could have just forced his way out later which would have pissed everyone off.


              Even if it was a real scenario I don't think its a good idea. Plus that Russ contract isn't pretty

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              • #22
                planetmars wrote: View Post

                The big fish is Giannis in 2021.. and if not him there are a lot of guys worthy of a max (like Dipo, Beal, Gobert, etc). I think he keeps at least enough for one max contract in 2021. It would be stupid not to.. It doesn't mean he has to get rid of everyone. I hope he can hold on to Kyle.. I doubt he keeps Serge and Marc. Fred is a wild card. He's important to the team but his next contract may make him too expensive and might hurt the bottom line 2 years from now - especially since Pascal will probably get the max too.

                realistically we need two max slots

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                • #23
                  TrueTorontoFan wrote: View Post
                  I will give my opinion first then go back and read the responses.

                  I think we need to play it out. I think the team comes back hungry and confident. They know how to do it. Being a champion really changes things. I think we can beat the east and make it to the finals again but it will be tough. I also think we could easily make the conference finals and lose to the bucks or sixers depending on how the standings shake out. For example if the bucks and sixers face eachother like we faced the sixers this year .... that will lead to a tough second round match up.


                  I am excited to see a fully integrated marc and kyle work together. I am excited to see marc have a bigger role in our offence without being the number 1 option. I don't think he is a number one option anymore, however running the offence through him every third play works wonders. He can also fully run the second unit.
                  I think you're certifiably nuts.
                  I love your positivity but you're nuts

                  This team will not make the finals and slim to none to make the ECF imo. That's fine, we can both have out opinions and one of us can be right

                  And Gasol has never been the number one option here....

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                  • #24
                    G__Deane wrote: View Post

                    I think you're certifiably nuts.
                    I love your positivity but you're nuts

                    This team will not make the finals and slim to none to make the ECF imo. That's fine, we can both have out opinions and one of us can be right

                    And Gasol has never been the number one option here....

                    I mean I am the true toronto fan for a reason...


                    listen... it may take a slew of injuries LOL but we can do it.


                    With regards to marc ... let me clarify, in the memphis system he was number 1.... here he was number 5 on the pecking order... more like a release valve. I think from that perspective we could have utilized him more. I would like to see him take a consistent 10 shots a game.. instead of 4-7. He should be taking 4 3's a game.

                    Its a very slim chance that we actually the finals.. but it is possible if the seeding breaks right. Second round vs the bucks would be a very interesting series for us as an example.. with the bucks likely winning but with our team as it is today... I think we could be looking at a 6-7 game series that isn't easy for them to win.

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                    • #25
                      Would be something else if Raptors could make it out of the East without Kawhi.

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                      • #26
                        LJ2 wrote: View Post
                        Would be something else if Raptors could make it out of the East without Kawhi.
                        With the way the East is, it's not one of those "absolutely, positively no way this can happen" type of things. I'd give it a solid 15-20% chance of happening. If Giannis and/or Embiid goes down, that goes up to 40-50%.

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                        • #27
                          I don't know much, but even with Kawhi, we weren't expected to get past the 6ixers, but we did. We definitely didn't have the shooting to go toe to toe with the Bucks, but we beat them. And then we were going to be swept by the Warriors without Durant because they were better.

                          Even Canadian talking heads said the above. Then we proved them all wrong.

                          I'm not saying we'll make it to the finals and win it all again, but we have a fighting chance to go far.

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                          • #28
                            golden wrote: View Post

                            With the way the East is, it's not one of those "absolutely, positively no way this can happen" type of things. I'd give it a solid 15-20% chance of happening. If Giannis and/or Embiid goes down, that goes up to 40-50%.
                            I agree. And it doesn't have to be Embiid or Giannis either. Simmons or Middleton getting injured really hampers those teams and the Raptors are still really deep. If OG plays like he was projected to in his rookie season and one of those shooters we nabbed in free agency can earn some play time then we've got a fighters chance against any team in the East. I gotta believe Nurse can figure out a way to keep our offense humming.

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                            • #29
                              chris wrote: View Post
                              it depends on the value of the return of course but man it would depress the hell out of me if we traded the greatest player in franchise history for a bad expiring contract and two second rounders to avoid "losing the asset for nothing." and i don't see a massive haul being available for our guys.

                              no we're not winning a title with next years team. but we could win 50 games, finish in the 3-5 seed, and push a team in the second round. there's dignity in that.

                              start rebuilding proper next summer (or the next) around pascal and a fresh cap sheet. that's my preference.
                              That first part is the most important. One of the biggest mistakes teams make during rebuilds or re-tools is jumping the gun cause they feel as though they have to trade everyone and get something back, which often leads to backing yourself into a corner and feeling forced into making trades (see, Blue Jays, Toronto, 2019 deadline). The good news is that the Raps have previously shown both that they won't panic on trades and that they tend to get a solid return. It's also reassuring that the roster seems to have a lot of depth (though not all NBA ready depth to be sure) that any trades they make can really be for the best possible return rather than trying to target certain needs, etc.

                              The only part of this post I'd disagree with is the last sentence: the Raptors have already started their rebuild.

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                              • #30
                                I think the state of the east might be why Masai decides to just run it back. If the right trade opens up at the deadline, and we get some lucky breaks in the east we could be right back in the finals. Then all it takes is a hobbled AD or injured Kawhi and boom... back to back champions.

                                HIGHLY unlikely, but not impossible.

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