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Bill Simmons Blasphemy: DeRozan for Henderson/#9

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  • #31
    imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    How on earth is Gerald Henderson a "prospect"? He's two year older than DeRozan.

    If DeRozan is unlikely to land a top 3-5 pick, then don't move him for a pick in this draft imo.
    I didn't say he was (although 26 would still qualify as 'young player with upside', no?) . I also said I wouldn't do that trade, on the basis that neither the pick or 'prospect' were as good as I'd like them to be.

    I don't like blanket statements like the bolded, since you aren't taking into account what else is acquired in the trade (ie: prospect, per the article referenced in the OP), or by using the cap space formerly used to pay DeRozan. However, I would tend to agree with you that the target should be much higher than a pick in the 6-10 range, especially when it comes time to justify the move to the fan base.

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    • #32
      CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
      I didn't say he was (although 26 would still qualify as 'young player with upside', no?) . I also said I wouldn't do that trade, on the basis that neither the pick or 'prospect' were as good as I'd like them to be.

      I don't like blanket statements like the bolded, since you aren't taking into account what else is acquired in the trade (ie: prospect, per the article referenced in the OP), or by using the cap space formerly used to pay DeRozan. However, I would tend to agree with you that the target should be much higher than a pick in the 6-10 range, especially when it comes time to justify the move to the fan base.
      It's not a blanket statement.

      I said "don't move him for a pick in this draft". I'm not talking about a deal where we would potentially get another valuable piece, that's a different story altogether.

      I'm not interested in trading DeRozan for something that isn't almost guaranteed to be significantly better now or down the road. Doesn't make sense.

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      • #33
        DanH wrote: View Post
        Honestly, unless the team can get a top pick (and 7 could be high enough if a guy like Vonleh or Exum drops) for DD, or package him for a superstar, then I'd rather wait to trade him either this summer (in free agency, exploring possible S+T opportunities) or at the deadline next year. Waiting any longer than that his value really drops off (due to his contract making him a "rental"), and waiting until after Lowry re-signs really reduces the collateral damage of a DD trade. Obviously there's a scenario where there's not enough value out there for DD as well, but I don't believe that to be the case - his value around the league is pretty high, I think.
        imanshumpert wrote: View Post
        Or keep him... doesn't have to be traded.
        Yeah, I covered that option. If there is good value for him, you trade him. If not, you don't. I just don't believe that to be the case.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • #34
          imanshumpert wrote: View Post
          It's not a blanket statement.

          I said "don't move him for a pick in this draft". I'm not talking about a deal where we would potentially get another valuable piece, that's a different story altogether.

          I'm not interested in trading DeRozan for something that isn't almost guaranteed to be significantly better now or down the road. Doesn't make sense.
          DanH wrote: View Post
          Yeah, I covered that option. If there is good value for him, you trade him. If not, you don't. I just don't believe that to be the case.
          We've come full circle to the 'sell high' thread discussion... none of the biggest DeRozan 'haters' have ever suggested trading him for less than a fair/good/high return (noting that evaluation of any return is both subjective and time sensitive), so I'm not sure why that dead horse keeps getting beat around here.

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          • #35
            CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
            We've come full circle to the 'sell high' thread discussion... none of the biggest DeRozan 'haters' have ever suggested trading him for less than a fair/good/high return (noting that evaluation of any return is both subjective and time sensitive), so I'm not sure why that dead horse keeps getting beat around here.
            Newsflash. I realize that.

            Where we disagree is evaluation of what a fair/good/high return is. Which as you said is subjective, so we're going to continue to disagree until he is either traded or hoisting the Larry O'Brien trophy along with KD

            Stop making such a big deal out of me debating man.

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            • #36
              imanshumpert wrote: View Post
              Newsflash. I realize that.

              Where we disagree is evaluation of what a fair/good/high return is. Which as you said is subjective, so we're going to continue to disagree until he is either traded or hoisting the Larry O'Brien trophy along with KD

              Stop making such a big deal out of me debating man.
              My post was making the exact same point, and I was giving credit to the great discussion that went on in the 'sell high' thread you created.

              I purposefully double-quoted to highlight the fact that both you (lean towards keeping DeRozan) and DanH (lean towards trading DeRozan) made the same point about only trading DeRozan for a 'good' return, to point out the common ground between the two sides.


              No need to get so defensive just because a post is made by certain posters.
              Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Mon Jun 2nd, 2014, 04:28 PM.

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              • #37
                It's times like this I'm thankful we have Ujiri.

                Considering the fact Henderson always seems to dominate against us Colangelo would probably trade DeRozan for him straight-up.

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                • #38
                  CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
                  We've come full circle to the 'sell high' thread discussion... none of the biggest DeRozan 'haters' have ever suggested trading him for less than a fair/good/high return (noting that evaluation of any return is both subjective and time sensitive), so I'm not sure why that dead horse keeps getting beat around here.
                  Man would I love to know how this dead horse gets beaten in Masai's mind.
                  "Stop eating your sushi."
                  "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                  "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                  - Jack Armstrong

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                  • #39
                    Not a fan of that particular trade but I like the principle behind it.

                    I'd rather see something like:

                    Trade DD to nuggets for Wilson Chandler and the 11th, and use that to select stauskas. We get a 2 way sf of decent size which was a major hole last year as well as a lights out shooter and facilitator in stauskas.

                    Then at 20 take ennis (currently dropped in many mocks) or Kyle Anderson. At 37 take Glenn Robinson III if ennis at 20 or Russ smith if Anderson at 20. Take a big man at 59 to backup JV like Bhullar.

                    Waive grievous and salmons, sign Patman and Lowry.

                    Rotations next year would be:

                    Starting:
                    Lowry
                    Ross
                    Chandler
                    Amir
                    JV

                    Bench:
                    Ennis/Russ smith
                    Stauskas
                    Robinson III/Anderson
                    Patman
                    Bhullar

                    Should result in improved defence, 3pt shooting and ball movement. Not sure nuggets would want the trade, but chandlers production dipped last year so maybe. It works on the trade machine in any case.





                    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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                    • #40
                      imanshumpert wrote: View Post
                      It's not a blanket statement.

                      I said "don't move him for a pick in this draft". I'm not talking about a deal where we would potentially get another valuable piece, that's a different story altogether.

                      I'm not interested in trading DeRozan for something that isn't almost guaranteed to be significantly better now or down the road. Doesn't make sense.
                      If the return for DeRozan is 'guaranteed' to be better for the Raptors now or in a short period of time... then why on earth would the other team do it?

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                      • #41
                        mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                        This is a perfect example of if enough people say the same thing then it must be true.

                        I honestly don't know if it is true or not but the only person who knows this for sure is Kyle Lowry.

                        If his best friend is traded and the team becomes much much better, I would think losing DD is not going to be the end of the world for Lowry and he might even have faith in Masai based on what happened this year.
                        Yeah of course, but in this situation I'd say the team is getting worse

                        Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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                        • #42
                          JordanMariam14 wrote: View Post
                          Yeah of course, but in this situation I'd say the team is getting worse

                          Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
                          Debatable.

                          I saw enough in the playoffs of the team making significant runs when DD comes out of the game to think twice on that. But I also recognize many of my opinions on DD have been dead wrong in the past and that when he played within the flow of the team on offense he was very, very valuable.

                          Personally, I call it 50/50 - and that doesn't factor in to any assets returned for him.

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                          • #43
                            MKG and the #9 would be nice. It would put us in a different place than we are now though. Back in development mode, but I think that's enough value.
                            "Bruno?
                            Heh, if he is in the D-league still in a few years I will be surprised.
                            He's terrible."

                            -Superjudge, 7/23

                            Hope you're wrong.

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                            • #44
                              mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                              Debatable.

                              I saw enough in the playoffs of the team making significant runs when DD comes out of the game to think twice on that. But I also recognize many of my opinions on DD have been dead wrong in the past and that when he played within the flow of the team on offense he was very, very valuable.

                              Personally, I call it 50/50 - and that doesn't factor in to any assets returned for him.
                              Touche,
                              But a lot of times in the playoffs he carried us like in Brooklyn in the first spot and in the 4th quarter of game two

                              Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

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                              • #45
                                Fully wrote: View Post
                                If the return for DeRozan is 'guaranteed' to be better for the Raptors now or in a short period of time... then why on earth would the other team do it?
                                imanshumpert lost the part of his statement where he said he'd be okay with a 3-5th pick. So that's where the "almost guaranteed" comes in, I think.

                                That actually is pretty much my limit too. I know it's a huge reach but the lowest I'd go, honestly, is 4th, because I'd want that "almost guarantee" of Wiggins/Embiid/Parker and I guess Exum; and that would take Derozan plus picks.

                                It's a damn shame the Lakers and Celtics didn't get higher, because aside from the Cavs they're the main players I see in moving picks to acquire talent to play with Kobe/Rondo.

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