Stars that could realistically be available to Toronto in the next few years

[imanshumpert]

It would be debatable whether either Robinson or Duncan are top-10 overall in NBA history, but my point was they twice drafted generational talents. I'll forgive you if you're too young to have had the chance to appreciate The Admiral.

Doesn't have anything to do with whether they're generational talents or not. I made specific reference to "10 best players in NBA history" which David Robinson is not a part of. No it's not debatable, and no I'm not arguing whether or not Admiral is a generational talent because he clearly was. That wasn't the term I referred to in my post.

I'm sorry you're too old to read effectively. Don't fire shots if you can't take them as well.

[CalgaryRapsFan]

Doesn't have anything to do with whether they're generational talents or not. I made specific reference to "10 best players in NBA history" which David Robinson is not a part of. No it's not debatable, and no I'm not arguing whether or not Admiral is a generational talent because he clearly was. That wasn't the term I referred to in my post.

I'm sorry you're too old to read effectively. Don't fire shots if you can't take them as well.

You might think that Duncan is a top-10 player in NBA history and that Robinson is not, but that's your opinion, hardly fact.

Don't be so defensive. I was actually adding support to the point you were initially making about the Spurs, by expanding it to include both Duncan and Robinson.

[yabadabayolo]

A little late, been busy and all. Nice touch on the Rudy Gay example, by the way.

At the same time, in fairness to Gay, we had the wrong talent to work with him. DD and Gay are both ISO-fficient players, but made less efficient due to them taking so many shots and depriving other players the chance of getting in to an offensive groove. If say, we surrounded Gay with a stretch-four (something we didn't have before the Gay trade), opening up the floor and leaving JV on a high-pick play with Gay's ISO play, he may have been more effective. It also didn't help that DD doesn't work as a perimeter player yet so defenses weren't too worried about closing out on DD's spacing of the floor in such a play. Also, Gay and DD don't pass enough out of the double-teams (just an observation, not a stat) to best make use of their one on one ability, which tells me they can't make their team mates better, something a superstar should be able to do. Hence, stars they are, but superstars they are not.....yet.

But the key is superstars make their team mates better along with their consistently above average NBA skills. The ability to score against a defender consistently in a one on one setting is an NBA skill, and one of several superstar qualities. The ability for a superstar to integrate their above average NBA skills in to their team's offensive and defensive approach is another superstar skill, albeit a rarer one.

Nowitski did this by polishing up his post play, and he won.
Bryant did this by shooting 5000 shots a day as his athletisim wore down, and he won.
Duncan focused more on passing as he aged.
KG upped his defensive tenacity for the Celtics as his offense wasn't as needed with Pierce and Allen.
Chris Paul, Melo, have all changed their games for the sake of winning.

The list goes on.

I'm in a bit of a rush, so not sure if I articulated my point well enough here, but I suppose I'll be back later.

No worries on the late reply I've been waiting for this forever ahhahahha

Derozan does EXACTLY what gay does. We can still surround him with all the stuff you pointed out earlier. And I'm pretty sure derozan always passes out of the double, gay was the one who always turned it over . He had like butter fingers or something because whenever the defender would poke their hand into him the ball would come loose. I'm certain that once dd can win a round or two in the playoffs he will get elevated to superstar status just like Paul George did. He does make his teammates better and soon his underrated amongst the league will turn to overrated amongst the league like George.

And melo and Paul haven't won anything yet. Yea Paul and the clippers are good but they have not won a championship which is the goal. And melo, really his team kinda sucked this year. How did he change it for the sake of winning.

[octothorp]

To me, all that matters is that the three options we have (winning without a superstar, acquiring a superstar via trade, and acquiring a superstar via free-agency) are not mutually exclusive; infact, they're very compatible. In the short term, smart, flexible asset acquisition and winning supports all three paths. Winning maximizes the value of current assets, increases the likelihood of future wins, and attracts free agents. Acquiring good assets increases the chances of winning, and increases trade options.

There may be a time when Masai actually gets a choice of continuing with second-tier stars or going all-in on a superstar, and there may be risk involved in that choice (for example, choosing to renounce bird-rights on a second-tier star to put in a high offer on a superstar with no guarantee of success). And when we get to that point, then those paths diverge and he'll need to pick one path or another. But personally, I refuse to take a stand on one abstract choice or another until we can actually talk about the players involved and the status of our team and the league at that time.

[Stevo]

No worries on the late reply I've been waiting for this forever ahhahahha

Derozan does EXACTLY what gay does. We can still surround him with all the stuff you pointed out earlier. And I'm pretty sure derozan always passes out of the double, gay was the one who always turned it over . He had like butter fingers or something because whenever the defender would poke their hand into him the ball would come loose. I'm certain that once dd can win a round or two in the playoffs he will get elevated to superstar status just like Paul George did. He does make his teammates better and soon his underrated amongst the league will turn to overrated amongst the league like George.

And melo and Paul haven't won anything yet. Yea Paul and the clippers are good but they have not won a championship which is the goal. And melo, really his team kinda sucked this year. How did he change it for the sake of winning.

I don't see DD pass out of the double much, nor effectively. That may simply be a difference of observation.

Still, the argument we're trying to defuse here is whether or not we need a superstar to beat the heat. We also used the heat to measure against because we want the raptors to be champions by beating the best at their best.

We mentioned that superstars have shown adept skills in iso plays, and Rudy Gay was brought in since the Raptors only started to succeed after trading an iso-centric player.

I don't think Gay is a superstar, but I do think that Gay's iso skill set can be useful on a championship team, provided there are complementary pieces and stable system to hide Gay's weaknesses outside of his iso plays. DD may be the same, but DD has a higher chance of developing more.

As for Melo, Paul, though both haven't won championships yet, I really feel they are superstars. Melo's game has changed to suit his coaches system in N.Y., playing more small ball with post-play a bit more. He changed for the sake of winning (even though NY didn't win, but that wasn't Melo's fault, from my viewpoint) and as for CP3, he had such a huge impact on the Clippers; brought leadership in for Griffin and his impact is evidenced by the win-loss record for the clippers before and after CP3.

Raptors need a superstar to beat the Heat at their best. It's tough to say if DD will develop in to one, but he's on the right track. However, it looks like he'll take a lot of time before he'll hit it (if he does) based on his development patterns.

There are no superstars readily avaliable via trade of FA for the Raptors that would make sense from an asset exchange standpoint. We'd either not gain enough or lose too much, in the current NBA market for players.

Anyone have a viable solution?

[stooley]

Here's another thing: top 5 players generally win the championship when its all said and done, but a lot of top 5 players get knocked out along the way.

If you can beat one, no reason why you couldn't beat another.

[Primer]

Anyone out there still wanna claim the Spurs can't beat the Heat without a superstar? Last night was one of the most epic beatdowns I have ever seen.

[Doc]

Anyone out there still wanna claim the Spurs can't beat the Heat without a superstar? Last night was one of the most epic beatdowns I have ever seen.

Define "superstar"? Sure, they're past their prime, but a combo of Parker, Duncan and Manu I think 99% of teams in the NBA would take any day over just a good team with a "superstar".

[stooley]

Define "superstar"? Sure, they're past their prime, but a combo of Parker, Duncan and Manu I think 99% of teams in the NBA would take any day over just a good team with a "superstar".

I think that's the point though, isn't it?

[YoungGunRaptor]

How about Kawhi Leonard last night?

28 points, and a bit of everything else against Lebron James? In the finals? Not bad for the 15th pick.

I would love to see the Raptors emulate the Spurs' team vision.

[Stevo]

Anyone out there still wanna claim the Spurs can't beat the Heat without a superstar? Last night was one of the most epic beatdowns I have ever seen.

Series not over dude. But it would be great to be wrong about the superstar thing. Coach Pop is making this happen for the Spurs though, no question about it, and he's more rare then obtaining superstar player. It's probably easier to get a superstar then emulating the Spurs.

If the Spurs do win the series though, then other possibilities can be looked at for championship runs.

But at heart, I think Toronto is a Superstar kinda city. Our general ill-will towards Vince today kinda shows how much effort and time we take to embrace every aspect, every character trait, every miscue, or any glory our superstars attain.

It's been so long since a championship in this town that I think we're just fanboys/girls at heart, wanting a clear-cut hero to represent us, for us to be proud of.

Team-style basketball? That's the way the game is meant to be played, and the best kind of basketball for the league to evolve.

Superstar-style basketball? This creates the moments that every fan or media outlet crave and love. Selfishly, I like those moments.

Not against either style, just have my preference.