Everything NBA CHAMPION TORONTO RAPTORS Training Camp / Preseason - 2019-2020

[inthepaint]

What? Davis looked TERRIBLE yesterday. He looked ok against the Rockets scrubs in Tokyo. But against LEGIT NBA guards that the Bulls suited up yesterday(LaVine, White)...Davis looked like a D-Leaguer.

Yeah he should spend some time in the 905 to hone his game for sure. On the other hand, from a positional standpoint for the Raptors this year, who are we gonna put as the 3rd PG (or backup PG when Lowry or FVV are load managing)?

McCaw is long and fast on the defensive end, but is a weak playmaker and shooter. His offence is extremely limited. Right now he's got 58 minutes through the first 3 games (playing with everyone, including the starters), and has 2 buckets to show for during that whole time. Payne is basically a turnover/fouling machine that has tunnel vision, a bad 3-pt shot, and a selfish streak that's a major red flag for a point guard. He's gonna be the first one waived on this team.

Davis on the other hand can shoot the 3, is a good and willing passer, attacks the paint effectively, is explosive around the rim, and is a decent defender. In other words he's not perfect and has a lot to develop still, but out of the guys on this team who can play the point, he's the 3rd best. Last night's game everyone looked terrible (with the exception of Thomas and OG), because it was just basically every man for himself auditioning for a role. Even Lowry/FVV alone with all those guys at once would look bad. There was no flow or game plan on that offence, so we can't take much from that game. Davis playing beside Norm/FVV, OG, Siakam and Gasol is not gonna play like he did last night.

[golden]

What? Davis looked TERRIBLE yesterday. He looked ok against the Rockets scrubs in Tokyo. But against LEGIT NBA guards that the Bulls suited up yesterday(LaVine, White)...Davis looked like a D-Leaguer.

They have Davis playing (i.e. learning) the point guard position. And the guys he was supposed to pass to were scrubs yesterday. That's a tough situation for anybody to look good. The few times Davis looked decent was when he basically said "eff it" and took to the rim by himself with an explosive move. He's one of the few players on this team that can actually beat his man off the dribble consistently. Lowry, FVV and Powell can't do it. Davis just needs more experience and better teammates, and he's going to be top 8-9 rotation player.... easily. He's got way more upside than FVV.

[GLF]

They have Davis playing (i.e. learning) the point guard position. And the guys he was supposed to pass to were scrubs yesterday. That's a tough situation for anybody to look good. The few times Davis looked decent was when he basically said "eff it" and took to the rim by himself with an explosive move. He's one of the few players on this team that can actually beat his man off the dribble consistently. Lowry, FVV and Powell can't do it. Davis just needs more experience and better teammates, and he's going to be top 8-9 rotation player.... easily. He's got way more upside than FVV.

Exactly. People need to realize when you play a whole bunch of role/bench players together along with scrubs who won't make the team they aren't going to look as good. Terence Davis playing alongside Fred, Serge, Marc, Kyle, Pascal etc. will look A LOT better than Davis playing alongside fucking Payne, McCaw, Boucher, Miller etc. Majority of our role players need guys to create for them. When none of our creators are playing that game what the hell do you expect lol.

[GLF]

Oh yea and Davis playing out of position a bit. He's played point guard before but it's not his natural position. I don't think he's played much shooting guard at all this preseason. I think when the season starts he'll play more 2 and that might also help him look better. He'll probably only play the 1 when either Kyle or Fred get injured or have a load management day. And even then I have a feeling it will be McCaw because he doesn't turn over the ball as much and Nurse likes that.

[grindhouse]

Exactly. People need to realize when you play a whole bunch of role/bench players together along with scrubs who won't make the team they aren't going to look as good. Terence Davis playing alongside Fred, Serge, Marc, Kyle, Pascal etc. will look A LOT better than Davis playing alongside fucking Payne, McCaw, Boucher, Miller etc. Majority of our role players need guys to create for them. When none of our creators are playing that game what the hell do you expect lol.

You hit the nail on the head. Terrance Davis is going to be a star barring no injury and you say from now we are going to teach you how to be a point guard not a combo guard but a point guard. I see a bit of barren Davis in Terrance Davis.

Matt Thomas is JJ reddick

here is my problem with nick nurse he keeps shoving squares into round holes and viscera. Call the right plays for the personal on the floor. Every single time Thomas is on the floor screen plays should be called. But if you don’t practice it how do you get better ?

my biggest Pet peeve with this team is lack of weak side action. The corner 3 works so well with this team because of the distance the defenders have to travel but there are also screen and cuts that can be made on the back end.

[The Great One]

This is Nike talking. LeBron is a PUPPET. What a chump. China definitely has this dude on its payroll.

[S.R.]

You hit the nail on the head. Terrance Davis is going to be a star barring no injury and you say from now we are going to teach you how to be a point guard not a combo guard but a point guard. I see a bit of barren Davis in Terrance Davis.

Matt Thomas is JJ reddick

here is my problem with nick nurse he keeps shoving squares into round holes and viscera. Call the right plays for the personal on the floor. Every single time Thomas is on the floor screen plays should be called. But if you don’t practice it how do you get better ?

my biggest Pet peeve with this team is lack of weak side action. The corner 3 works so well with this team because of the distance the defenders have to travel but there are also screen and cuts that can be made on the back end.

JJ Reddick can play defence and do a lot more than just spot up 3's, he's a rare catch and shoot guy who actually rounded out his game. He's no Kyle Korver or Steve Kerr.

[GLF]

You hit the nail on the head. Terrance Davis is going to be a star barring no injury and you say from now we are going to teach you how to be a point guard not a combo guard but a point guard. I see a bit of barren Davis in Terrance Davis.

Matt Thomas is JJ reddick

here is my problem with nick nurse he keeps shoving squares into round holes and viscera. Call the right plays for the personal on the floor. Every single time Thomas is on the floor screen plays should be called. But if you don’t practice it how do you get better ?

my biggest Pet peeve with this team is lack of weak side action. The corner 3 works so well with this team because of the distance the defenders have to travel but there are also screen and cuts that can be made on the back end.

Is the beginning part sarcasm? lol. But yea Nurse likes to make/allow players do things they can't do well yet instead of giving them a role and letting them stick to that. That's the one things I liked about Casey more. But at the same time Nurse's way keeps the players happier I guess. We do need to get better at actually using shooters properly. Having them run off screens like JJ does. We just have them standing around waiting for the ball to come to them.

[chris]

This is Nike talking. LeBron is a PUPPET. What a chump. China definitely has this dude on its payroll.

i never thought it was possible for me to hate lebron james more than i already do but here we are

[The Great One]

LeBron needs to retire from the social justice movement. More than an athlete my ass. #LeHypocrite

[RandomGuy]

Nah it's you who's the hypocrite, you would do exactly the same thing if you were to be paid 1 billion (through lifetime) from Nike

[DanH]

Well, if Powell wants to be a limited role player playing restricted minutes in specific lineups this works great. If you want him to be a secondary scoring option and the starting two guard, which I thought was the point, then this doesn’t work.

But that's exactly the role he should be in. Playing as the primary scorer, supporting his own bench units, with lesser playmakers around him, instead of with the support of a starting quality PG to run the offence and a primary scorer like Pascal beside him, is the role we need to avoid, and the role he'd be thrust into if he's played with the wrong lineups.

[slaw]

But that's exactly the role he should be in. Playing as the primary scorer, supporting his own bench units, with lesser playmakers around him, instead of with the support of a starting quality PG to run the offence and a primary scorer like Pascal beside him, is the role we need to avoid, and the role he'd be thrust into if he's played with the wrong lineups.

If he needs that much coddling - and if that's all he's good for - then he's not worth the investment.... lots and lots of guys would excel playing with quality PGs and budding stars around them. And, again, Nurse isn't going to baby players to that extent. It's not his style, at least based on last season. If you want to be a mainstay then you're going to have to play with lots of combinations and lineups.

[DanH]

If he needs that much coddling - and if that's all he's good for - then he's not worth the investment.... lots and lots of guys would excel playing with quality PGs and budding stars around them. And, again, Nurse isn't going to baby players to that extent. It's not his style, at least based on last season. If you want to be a mainstay then you're going to have to play with lots of combinations and lineups.

I'm not saying Powell will not play with many lineups. He will. And he'll suck in a lot of them. Just like FVV and OG did last year. They'll probably play in those lineups too, and will again suck in them this year. And that will be a coaching failure (in terms of on-court point differential), just like last season (there may be other benefits to sacrificing on-court success, I don't dispute that, though I'm unconvinced of the benefits based on what we've seen).

Can you name a wing on this team that has the potential to play that role Powell should be slotted into besides FVV who has already proven he can do it? McCaw can't. OG can't. Davis has loads to prove, maybe eventually. Miller can't. None of those guys have the capacity to be secondary scorers.

In any case, Powell has a chance at some real success this year in that role. If he can prove to be successful in that role, he could provide well above his contract value and maybe become an extension or trade (for value!) candidate down the road. But if he's not in that role enough, don't be surprised when he struggles, and don't use those struggles as an argument that he couldn't be used better.

Lots of players need that much coddling. Powell's not a star. Basically any player who is not a star will need similar treatment, getting good matchups, good linemates, good role definition to have success. Make Danny Green create offence and you are screwed. Does that mean he's not worth the investment? Quality role players are exceedingly valuable. Not as valuable as stars, obviously, but they are rarer and more important than many think.

[slaw]

I'm not saying Powell will not play with many lineups. He will. And he'll suck in a lot of them. Just like FVV and OG did last year. They'll probably play in those lineups too, and will again suck in them this year. And that will be a coaching failure (in terms of on-court point differential), just like last season (there may be other benefits to sacrificing on-court success, I don't dispute that, though I'm unconvinced of the benefits based on what we've seen).

Can you name a wing on this team that has the potential to play that role Powell should be slotted into besides FVV who has already proven he can do it? McCaw can't. OG can't. Davis has loads to prove, maybe eventually. Miller can't. None of those guys have the capacity to be secondary scorers.

In any case, Powell has a chance at some real success this year in that role. If he can prove to be successful in that role, he could provide well above his contract value and maybe become an extension or trade (for value!) candidate down the road. But if he's not in that role enough, don't be surprised when he struggles, and don't use those struggles as an argument that he couldn't be used better.

Lots of players need that much coddling. Powell's not a star. Basically any player who is not a star will need similar treatment, getting good matchups, good linemates, good role definition to have success. Make Danny Green create offence and you are screwed. Does that mean he's not worth the investment? Quality role players are exceedingly valuable. Not as valuable as stars, obviously, but they are rarer and more important than many think.

So, your basic point is that role players are role players? Ok. I thought the discussion was about Norm stepping up and becoming more than a role player? yeah, if he's just a role player then using him solely as a role player make sense.

Lots to unpack in that post but I have to agree that we've certainly yet to see the benefits of Nurse sacrificing "on-court point differential" of role players in terms of actual success.... until Nurse actually has on-court success in the league and wins something it will be hard to argue about that.