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Why DeRozan is an ideal 2nd option for a championship team.

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  • imanshumpert
    replied
    ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    Nice response, and yes the word option, has an assumed connotation of offense, I just fell like when you talk about deep playoff runs you can't only look at one side of the ball.

    I agree with most of what you say, but I'm not quite sure I can say he is average defensively, and/or a net zero on defense. If he improves the defense to get to the point of average/net zero, the case for keeping him would be MUCH stronger (EDIT: which would also raise the amount coming back to the Raps for Ujiri to accept a trade him).

    I don't have the time for it, but it would be interesting to breakdown some of the defensive numbers of SGs who play 20+ minutes/game to get a better understanding of where he actually stands. Right now my evaluate of Demar is solely based on the eye test. Not that defensive stats are great, but it would be interesting to see where he comes down.
    Couldn't really find anything better than this because I don't actually have a Synergy account (if someone does that would be helpful).



    Those are his Synergy defensive stats, but kind of old (from early January I think).

    PPP(Points per Possession)

    Synergy Stats from February 1st
    Overall: 0.76 Ranks 34th
    Isolation: 0.29 Ranks 1st
    P&R Ball handler: 0.62 Ranks 17th
    Post up: 0.93 Ranks 90
    Spot up: 0.86 Ranks 46
    OffScreen: 0.98 Ranks 55

    All those ranks are league-wide ranks. Obviously DeRozan benefits from defending the worst of the other team's two wing players. But holding those players to 30 something percent shooting and the 34th best overall defensive PPP in the league is great too. I wish I could see the stats to compare him to other similar shooting guards but like I said I don't have access.

    From looking at those stats though, his main issues are defending off-ball screens and post-up plays, which is pretty consistent with what you see during games. But even in those categories, he's better than average against his competition.
    Last edited by imanshumpert; Tue Jun 10th, 2014, 10:01 AM.

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  • ezz_bee
    replied
    imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    The reason I focussed on offense is because when I say 2nd option I'm referring to 2nd scoring option (which I think is the general assumption of what a 1st, 2nd or 3rd or whatever option is). I'll answer your questions though.

    What does DeRozan bring defensively? Well let's be real, DeRozan is an average defender. He can guard his position and some small-forwards or point guards depending on their size/quickness/scoring ability. He's not someone you want to send to guard the best player on the other team, but he is capable of doing a solid job against role players on the defensive end.

    What positives do the Raps enjoy with him on defense? Well DeRozan to me is a net-zero on defense. Doesn't really improve your defense, doesn't hurt it. As far as positives, he has good size for his position and is not likely to try to do too much on defense by over-helping or overplaying passing lanes which could leave your defense exposed. Also DeRozan is effective at limiting role players to being just that, role players. His isolation defense is excellent. Obviously he usually is not guarding players that excel in isolations, but what it does mean is that the "blow-bys" that people here like to harp on him for consistently are overstated.

    What are his short-comings defensively? One thing that I've seen has improved quite a lot this year is the effort, that was really an issue for him in the past, now we're seeing a consistent effort on the defensive end which is great. One shortcoming is that his lateral quickness is not elite, which prevents him from being able to guard star wings (who usually have explosive first-steps); this can pose a problem because it requires him to play with a wing that is very good on the defensive end most of the time. Also, DeRozan does not defend the post well against larger players. We usually see this when Ross is asked to guard the smaller wing. DeRozan is undersized for the 3-spot so most of those guys can abuse him on the block and so can some bigger shooting guards (Joe Johnson for example, although he plays SF for Brooklyn).

    What defensive schemes should the Raptors use? I think we're already using the right ones. We had the 10th ranked defense last year, and as Jonas improves as an anchor an Ross' defensive IQ increases I think that can only get better. The schemes right now do a pretty good job of preventing DeRozan from having to guard the best player on the other team and maximizing his defensive ability while minimizing the effect of his weaknesses.

    What skills do surrounding players need to have? Ideally next to DeRozan what you'd want is a SF that has adequate size and length and is elite on the defensive end. Then obviously you want good rim protectors if his man gets beaten off the dribble. I think generally a championship team can get away with 1 or 2 average defenders in the starting lineup as long as the other 3 players are elite defensively and the coach puts together good schemes.

    Nice response, and yes the word option, has an assumed connotation of offense, I just fell like when you talk about deep playoff runs you can't only look at one side of the ball.

    I agree with most of what you say, but I'm not quite sure I can say he is average defensively, and/or a net zero on defense. If he improves the defense to get to the point of average/net zero, the case for keeping him would be MUCH stronger (EDIT: which would also raise the amount coming back to the Raps for Ujiri to accept a trade him).

    I don't have the time for it, but it would be interesting to breakdown some of the defensive numbers of SGs who play 20+ minutes/game to get a better understanding of where he actually stands. Right now my evaluate of Demar is solely based on the eye test. Not that defensive stats are great, but it would be interesting to see where he comes down.
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Tue Jun 10th, 2014, 09:17 AM.

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  • imanshumpert
    replied
    ezz_bee wrote: View Post
    It's good that you pointed out your non use of "hater". That was directed at other posters.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I do think it's telling that in your extensive analysis of Derozan's game you devote little to no analysis of Demar on the defensive end.

    What does he bring defensively?

    What positives do the raps enjoy with him on defense?

    What are his short-comings defensively?

    What defensive schemes should the raptors use to maximize his strengths/minimize his weaknesses?

    What skills do surrounding players need to have to make up for Derozan's weaknesses/run optimal defensive schemes?

    This isn't sarcasm, offense is only one half of the game, and any evaluation of how likely the raps are to win a championship with Derozan needs to take into account offense & defence, in equal measure.
    The reason I focussed on offense is because when I say 2nd option I'm referring to 2nd scoring option (which I think is the general assumption of what a 1st, 2nd or 3rd or whatever option is). I'll answer your questions though.

    What does DeRozan bring defensively? Well let's be real, DeRozan is an average defender. He can guard his position and some small-forwards or point guards depending on their size/quickness/scoring ability. He's not someone you want to send to guard the best player on the other team, but he is capable of doing a solid job against role players on the defensive end.

    What positives do the Raps enjoy with him on defense? Well DeRozan to me is a net-zero on defense. Doesn't really improve your defense, doesn't hurt it. As far as positives, he has good size for his position and is not likely to try to do too much on defense by over-helping or overplaying passing lanes which could leave your defense exposed. Also DeRozan is effective at limiting role players to being just that, role players. His isolation defense is excellent. Obviously he usually is not guarding players that excel in isolations, but what it does mean is that the "blow-bys" that people here like to harp on him for consistently are overstated.

    What are his short-comings defensively? One thing that I've seen has improved quite a lot this year is the effort, that was really an issue for him in the past, now we're seeing a consistent effort on the defensive end which is great. One shortcoming is that his lateral quickness is not elite, which prevents him from being able to guard star wings (who usually have explosive first-steps); this can pose a problem because it requires him to play with a wing that is very good on the defensive end most of the time. Also, DeRozan does not defend the post well against larger players. We usually see this when Ross is asked to guard the smaller wing. DeRozan is undersized for the 3-spot so most of those guys can abuse him on the block and so can some bigger shooting guards (Joe Johnson for example, although he plays SF for Brooklyn).

    What defensive schemes should the Raptors use? I think we're already using the right ones. We had the 10th ranked defense last year, and as Jonas improves as an anchor an Ross' defensive IQ increases I think that can only get better. The schemes right now do a pretty good job of preventing DeRozan from having to guard the best player on the other team and maximizing his defensive ability while minimizing the effect of his weaknesses.

    What skills do surrounding players need to have? Ideally next to DeRozan what you'd want is a SF that has adequate size and length and is elite on the defensive end. Then obviously you want good rim protectors if his man gets beaten off the dribble. I think generally a championship team can get away with 1 or 2 average defenders in the starting lineup as long as the other 3 players are elite defensively and the coach puts together good schemes.

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  • ezz_bee
    replied
    imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    I think it needs to be pointed out that I do not use the term "hater" for people that don't like DeMar's game. In fact I just searched to confirm, and I have never used it to describe another poster or group of posters on this forum.

    Why do I think DeRozan would be excellent as a 2nd option aside from just the examples I've posted? Because it would reduce the number of isolation plays that are drawn up for him/he decides to take for himself. DeRozan is much better when he isn't the one initiating the offensive play. What I mean by that isn't that he's bad with the ball, but he's better catching it in motion or coming off a screen and THEN doing something rather than dribbling at the 3 point line and taking a pull-up mid-range jumper.

    Having DeMar as a 2nd option would allow him to focus on his strengths:

    - More opportunities to shoot corner threes out of offensive sets, and basically eliminate above-the-break 3 pointers from his shot attempts. This could result in him being a high 30s three point shooter. I noticed from looking at some of Richard Hamilton's shot charts that his improvement in 3pt shooting from his 6th season onwards was primarily due to just shooting more of them from the corners and not necessarily entirely because he became a better shooter.

    - He excels at coming off screens and pin-downs. Why? Because either he can clear space to get a wide-open jumpshot or he gets to isolate 1 on 1 (not this is different than an isolation set where he is basically going 1 on 5), which usually results in a basket at the rim, a dish to an open man if someone cheats to help, or free throws.

    - Operating out of the high or low post. Say you have another great wing scorer, now the other team can't necessarily put their biggest defender on DeRozan. And we've seen that DeMar has the ability to punish smaller guards (and like 90% of shooting guards are smaller than him) on the block. Would also be much riskier for the other team to throw a second defender at him in this situation (because he's not the most dangerous scoring threat).

    - Pick and roll offense. DeRozan was the second most efficient pick and roll ballhandler in the league this year. What we would be looking at here isn't running a pick and roll from the top of the key, but rather in motion. Have DeRozan come off a screen, catch the ball, then have the screener (a guy like Amir or JV) set a ball screen now and roll to the basket. That's going to result in points the majority of the time.

    All of these things would be effective as a third option as well, so I don't really see the issue there, it would really depend on who we have on the roster. Right now DeRozan is paid like a third or fourth banana. And if you look around the league, most contenders have 3 or more guys making 8 figures a season. So even an extension 2 years from now in the 11-13M range per season would make sense in a 2nd or 3rd option role.

    I just think being a 2nd option would allow DeMar to really focus on and harness his strengths. People say his mid-range shots are the issue, no that's an over-simplification of the problem. It's not the fact that he's taking mid-range jumpers that's the problem, it's the type of jumpers he's getting. Those pull-up, isolation mid-range Js are what lower his efficiency (which is actually solid btw, not great but solid especially given his role). As a second option with a proper offense, you'd see less of those and more of him focussing on the strengths I outlined above.

    I also don't really get when people say he couldn't fit into an offense like the Spurs or whatever. He's a very good passer. Both the ye test and advanced metrics would tell you that.
    It's good that you pointed out your non use of "hater". That was directed at other posters.

    I'm not trying to be a jerk, but I do think it's telling that in your extensive analysis of Derozan's game you devote little to no analysis of Demar on the defensive end.

    What does he bring defensively?

    What positives do the raps enjoy with him on defense?

    What are his short-comings defensively?

    What defensive schemes should the raptors use to maximize his strengths/minimize his weaknesses?

    What skills do surrounding players need to have to make up for Derozan's weaknesses/run optimal defensive schemes?

    This isn't sarcasm, offense is only one half of the game, and any evaluation of how likely the raps are to win a championship with Derozan needs to take into account offense & defence, in equal measure.

    Leave a comment:


  • imanshumpert
    replied
    Fully wrote: View Post
    Okay, I will have to take your word for it. I still think you've taken a few loose connections between DD and previous second options on championship teams in order for a massive leap of faith. Common sense indicates that DeRozan's level of production would curtail quite a bit with less touches, less shots, more restrictions on what he's supposed to do offensively, but maybe not.
    I think DeRozan could still score 20ppg with 15 shots a game as a 2nd option. I'd expect his shooting efficiency to improve with less bad shots being taken.

    All it would take is for him to make about 7 of those 15 shots and maybe 1 of them is a three a game. Then 5 or 6 free throws a night and you still have him scoring 20 a game. Don't think the assists or rebounds would drop at all, in fact they would probably increase.

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  • Fully
    replied
    imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    And those factors coupled with his level of production make him an ideal second option for a championship team.
    Okay, I will have to take your word for it. I still think you've taken a few loose connections between DD and previous second options on championship teams in order for a massive leap of faith. Common sense indicates that DeRozan's level of production would curtail quite a bit with less touches, less shots, more restrictions on what he's supposed to do offensively, but maybe not.

    Leave a comment:


  • imanshumpert
    replied
    Fully wrote: View Post
    I agree with a lot of what you're saying again. But this doesn't prove that DD is "the ideal second option for a championship team" as much as it says that he's better suited to be a number two option, period. There's a big difference in that.
    And those factors coupled with his level of production make him an ideal second option for a championship team.

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  • Fully
    replied
    imanshumpert wrote: View Post
    I think it needs to be pointed out that I do not use the term "hater" for people that don't like DeMar's game. In fact I just searched to confirm, and I have never used it to describe another poster or group of posters on this forum.

    Why do I think DeRozan would be excellent as a 2nd option aside from just the examples I've posted? Because it would reduce the number of isolation plays that are drawn up for him/he decides to take for himself. DeRozan is much better when he isn't the one initiating the offensive play. What I mean by that isn't that he's bad with the ball, but he's better catching it in motion or coming off a screen and THEN doing something rather than dribbling at the 3 point line and taking a pull-up mid-range jumper.

    Having DeMar as a 2nd option would allow him to focus on his strengths:

    - More opportunities to shoot corner threes out of offensive sets, and basically eliminate above-the-break 3 pointers from his shot attempts. This could result in him being a high 30s three point shooter. I noticed from looking at some of Richard Hamilton's shot charts that his improvement in 3pt shooting from his 6th season onwards was primarily due to just shooting more of them from the corners and not necessarily entirely because he became a better shooter.

    - He excels at coming off screens and pin-downs. Why? Because either he can clear space to get a wide-open jumpshot or he gets to isolate 1 on 1 (not this is different than an isolation set where he is basically going 1 on 5), which usually results in a basket at the rim, a dish to an open man if someone cheats to help, or free throws.

    - Operating out of the high or low post. Say you have another great wing scorer, now the other team can't necessarily put their biggest defender on DeRozan. And we've seen that DeMar has the ability to punish smaller guards (and like 90% of shooting guards are smaller than him) on the block. Would also be much riskier for the other team to throw a second defender at him in this situation (because he's not the most dangerous scoring threat).

    - Pick and roll offense. DeRozan was the second most efficient pick and roll ballhandler in the league this year. What we would be looking at here isn't running a pick and roll from the top of the key, but rather in motion. Have DeRozan come off a screen, catch the ball, then have the screener (a guy like Amir or JV) set a ball screen now and roll to the basket. That's going to result in points the majority of the time.

    All of these things would be effective as a third option as well, so I don't really see the issue there, it would really depend on who we have on the roster. Right now DeRozan is paid like a third or fourth banana. And if you look around the league, most contenders have 3 or more guys making 8 figures a season. So even an extension 2 years from now in the 11-13M range per season would make sense in a 2nd or 3rd option role.

    I just think being a 2nd option would allow DeMar to really focus on and harness his strengths. People say his mid-range shots are the issue, no that's an over-simplification of the problem. It's not the fact that he's taking mid-range jumpers that's the problem, it's the type of jumpers he's getting. Those pull-up, isolation mid-range Js are what lower his efficiency (which is actually solid btw, not great but solid especially given his role). As a second option with a proper offense, you'd see less of those and more of him focussing on the strengths I outlined above.

    I also don't really get when people say he couldn't fit into an offense like the Spurs or whatever. He's a very good passer. Both the ye test and advanced metrics would tell you that.
    I agree with a lot of what you're saying again. But this doesn't prove that DD is "the ideal second option for a championship team" as much as it says that he's better suited to be a number two option, period. There's a big difference in that.

    Leave a comment:


  • imanshumpert
    replied
    I think it needs to be pointed out that I do not use the term "hater" for people that don't like DeMar's game. In fact I just searched to confirm, and I have never used it to describe another poster or group of posters on this forum.

    Why do I think DeRozan would be excellent as a 2nd option aside from just the examples I've posted? Because it would reduce the number of isolation plays that are drawn up for him/he decides to take for himself. DeRozan is much better when he isn't the one initiating the offensive play. What I mean by that isn't that he's bad with the ball, but he's better catching it in motion or coming off a screen and THEN doing something rather than dribbling at the 3 point line and taking a pull-up mid-range jumper.

    Having DeMar as a 2nd option would allow him to focus on his strengths:

    - More opportunities to shoot corner threes out of offensive sets, and basically eliminate above-the-break 3 pointers from his shot attempts. This could result in him being a high 30s three point shooter. I noticed from looking at some of Richard Hamilton's shot charts that his improvement in 3pt shooting from his 6th season onwards was primarily due to just shooting more of them from the corners and not necessarily entirely because he became a better shooter.

    - He excels at coming off screens and pin-downs. Why? Because either he can clear space to get a wide-open jumpshot or he gets to isolate 1 on 1 (not this is different than an isolation set where he is basically going 1 on 5), which usually results in a basket at the rim, a dish to an open man if someone cheats to help, or free throws.

    - Operating out of the high or low post. Say you have another great wing scorer, now the other team can't necessarily put their biggest defender on DeRozan. And we've seen that DeMar has the ability to punish smaller guards (and like 90% of shooting guards are smaller than him) on the block. Would also be much riskier for the other team to throw a second defender at him in this situation (because he's not the most dangerous scoring threat).

    - Pick and roll offense. DeRozan was the second most efficient pick and roll ballhandler in the league this year. What we would be looking at here isn't running a pick and roll from the top of the key, but rather in motion. Have DeRozan come off a screen, catch the ball, then have the screener (a guy like Amir or JV) set a ball screen now and roll to the basket. That's going to result in points the majority of the time.

    All of these things would be effective as a third option as well, so I don't really see the issue there, it would really depend on who we have on the roster. Right now DeRozan is paid like a third or fourth banana. And if you look around the league, most contenders have 3 or more guys making 8 figures a season. So even an extension 2 years from now in the 11-13M range per season would make sense in a 2nd or 3rd option role.

    I just think being a 2nd option would allow DeMar to really focus on and harness his strengths. People say his mid-range shots are the issue, no that's an over-simplification of the problem. It's not the fact that he's taking mid-range jumpers that's the problem, it's the type of jumpers he's getting. Those pull-up, isolation mid-range Js are what lower his efficiency (which is actually solid btw, not great but solid especially given his role). As a second option with a proper offense, you'd see less of those and more of him focussing on the strengths I outlined above.

    I also don't really get when people say he couldn't fit into an offense like the Spurs or whatever. He's a very good passer. Both the ye test and advanced metrics would tell you that.

    Leave a comment:


  • ezz_bee
    replied
    The rationale of the OP is very anecdotal. A lot of those players played different positions and had different roles. Saying both Garnett and Derozan shoot jumpers, therefore they are comparable, is wildly simplistic. Furthermore the importance of the 3 point shot is something that has grown exponentially over the last few years. Once you go back further than 2010, you can't compare it anymore because it wasn't something teams believed was important. There offensive schemes weren't designed around 3pt shooting. A lot of this has to do with the fact that teams didn't use to be able to play any zones. Once partial zoning was allowed 2001, offensive spacing was much harder to come by, because defenders could float away from their checks to provide help defense.


    Furthermore, It's not just a binary question "Can we win a championship with Demar?"At least it shouldn't be. For example, let's substitute myself (or anyone for that matter) and ask a similar question. Can an NBA team win a championship with me as a starter? Ridiculous right? But what about this team?

    A team of
    Chris Paul
    Me (for 3 point shooting!!!)
    Lebron James
    Anthony Davis
    Serge Ibaka

    Can win a Championship? Depending on who we had coming off bench,(Also, how amazing would it be to watch that team!?!?!?!)

    Saying that I'm a player that can be a starter on a championship team in the NBA doesn't really mean much, because it's not about individual players: It's also about how they fit, and whether one (or more) players weaknesses can be covered up by teammates or hidden in schemes.

    Anyone in the NBA can win a ring, and anyone in the right circumstances (JJ Barea/Mike Miller) can have a huge impact on a championship team. I think as a GM the goal is to create a team with few weaknesses as possible, and have players with complimentary skills sets that cover up for each others weaknesses, balance in starting and bench units is also important.

    Was my example ridiculous? Of course it was. The odds of a team be able to afford and acquire Paul, Lebron, Davis, and Serge, is next to impossible. But the point remains, in order for me to win a championship, I'd have to be playing with people who could cover up for my weaknesses defensively.

    With that said, I DO like the Jason Terry comparison and I think it's worth exploring a little more.

    If you look at their numbers from basketball-reference.com (per game/per36/advanced) they are extremely similar. Terry gets more assists, but Demar gets more rebounds. They have virtually identical points/efficiency/and advanced stats. Their Ortg/Drtg, and winshares are the same. There is one category where they differ widely: Games Started. In 2006-2007, Jason terry played 81 games and started in 80 of them. The following year he played all 82 games but only started 34. By 2010-2011 (the year they won) he played all 82 but only started 10. He averaged at least 31 min/game in all of those years.

    What does the Jason Terry experience tell us? I think it tells us that although he was their 2nd option offensively, he was not their 2nd option defensively. He was moved to the bench to provide a spark offensively, and add scoring to the 2nd unit.

    To me Demar falls in the same category.

    Yes the Raps can win with Demar BUT I think their chances would be better with he coming off the bench in the Manu/Terry role, where their defensive weakness doesn't matter as much because they are often matched up with 2nd unit players (Although, it would be nice to see some improvement in playmaking (aka a passing/assists).

    Also it's worth looking that their contracts...

    Jason Terry signed a 6 year deal at 9.5 million/year (not sure if it was front or back loaded) with the Mavs in 2006 at age 29. A year after he won the title he signed with Boston for a two years @ 5 mil/year (It was hoped that he'd be the missing piece to another finals appearance, he wasn't). Also, keep in mind that the person who put together that team (Cuban) let pretty much all of the key free agents of that team go, because he felt like under the new CBA he couldn't afford to keep them.

    Again, it's not a question of "Can we make the finals with Demar as second option" because the answer is yes. The question for me is "What would a team with Demar have to look like in order to make the finals"? and also, "Will it be easier to make that team if we trade Demar?"

    If we look at Jason Terry, who is probably the "2nd option offensively" who is closest to Demar, than we have to ask the question, would Demar be willing to move to the bench if it was in the best interests of the team? I'm not sure he'd be willing to (also I'm also not sure he wouldn't).

    With the restrictions of the new CBA is he willing to accept a new contract at a rate that will allow us to put together a championship team? If he's NOT (and why would he turn down a bigger paycheck?) are we better off getting rid of him now?

    These are the big complicated questions. It's impossible to know for sure, what the answers are.

    If I'm a GM, I'd rather NOT have to expect Derozan to play elite defense (or even above average defense) which means either getting players to make up for his defensive holes, OR moving him (to the bench or another team). If we traded or Signed a very good starting SF, would Demar be okay playing 30+ minutes but coming off the bench, if it made the team better (just like Dallas did with Terry, and SA did with Manu)?

    Demar might play himself into a contract that the Raptors can't afford AND put together a championship calibre team. AND that he DOES have defensive weaknesses that need to be made up for by other players and schemes. This year's team couldn't figure out a way to do that and Brooklyn exploited Demar, and Toronto's inability to counter that cost them the series. I do believe that is on the Coach, and Team, as much as it is on Demar, but that doesn't change the fact that it is Demar's weakness the team needs to figure out a way to compensate.

    Does this mean we must trade Demar? Absolutely not. But it does mean that it's worth seeing what other teams would give you for him. I just happen to be of the mind that there's a 50-50 chance that what you get for him is going to make it significantly easier to build that contender, than it will be by keeping him (A lot of that has to do with what I think other teams will offer him in free agency). Would I be mad if the Raps kept him, absolutely not, because again there's a 50% chance that you aren't offered a package that makes it worth it.

    But I am getting really really tired, of people throwing the word "hater" around. Especially, since I think everyone really likes Demar as a person, recognizes his durability, and thinks that he works really hard. Unfortunately, those are only part of the very very very complicated factors that GM's must evaluate when deciding how much a player is worth. In Demar's case this is complicated because there are several unknowns: How much growth is he going to make. How much he is going to command on the open market at the end of 2016. Just because we have different subjective opinions on those two unknowns doesn't make anyone a "hater".
    Last edited by ezz_bee; Mon Jun 9th, 2014, 04:46 AM.

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  • JimiCliff
    replied
    TSF wrote: View Post
    You could see it pretty often when you watched Heat games- It just didn't feel like their playoff defense. Sloppy rotations, aggressive pick and roll schemes but no crisp help, lazy transition D, all the little stuff.
    Again though - Wade missed significant time this year. All you mentioned could easily be attributed to that; as much as simply taking their foot off the throttle.

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  • TSF
    replied
    JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Yup, pretty easy, and nothing more than a guess.
    You could see it pretty often when you watched Heat games- It just didn't feel like their playoff defense. Sloppy rotations, aggressive pick and roll schemes but no crisp help, lazy transition D, all the little stuff.

    Leave a comment:


  • JimiCliff
    replied
    TSF wrote: View Post
    They took their foot off the throttle? Pretty easy answer. With a system so dependent on fast, well-timed rotations, when you ease up during the regular season to spare guys who haven't really had much time off in years, the defense slips.
    Yup, pretty easy, and nothing more than a guess.

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  • TSF
    replied
    JimiCliff wrote: View Post
    Just tonight, Van Gundy mentioned that Miami had dropped to 11th in the league in defensive efficiency, and that this was the first year of the bron/wade/bosh era where they haven't been an elite defensive team. Then Van Gundy wondered why, and couldn't come up with an answer.

    Wade played significantly fewer minutes this year than he did in any of the previous three, and there have been no other major roster changes.
    They took their foot off the throttle? Pretty easy answer. With a system so dependent on fast, well-timed rotations, when you ease up during the regular season to spare guys who haven't really had much time off in years, the defense slips.

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  • JimiCliff
    replied
    Just tonight, Van Gundy mentioned that Miami had dropped to 11th in the league in defensive efficiency, and that this was the first year of the bron/wade/bosh era where they haven't been an elite defensive team. Then Van Gundy wondered why, and couldn't come up with an answer.

    Wade played significantly fewer minutes this year than he did in any of the previous three, and there have been no other major roster changes.

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