Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Top 25 All Time Raptor Players

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31
    Axel wrote: View Post

    Does this mean multipaul was right all along?

    Seriously though, you do wonder how certain players would have fared if their career had started 2 years ago instead. Guys like Sam Perkins, Al Harrington, and yeah, maybe Bargnani. One thing that definitely hurt those Raps teams was the lack of interior strength with Bosh and Bargnani, so the logic that West poses certainly has merit.
    It's a good point, but still guys like Kelly Olynyk & Frank Kaminsky are career backups, and Meyers Leonard is a 3rd string big, so big men still need to bring enough defense (post, PnR, help) to stay on the court. It's the last line of defense and coaches get fired because of that.

    But yeah, some big men who could hit 3's who are out of the league now: Brian Cook, Vlad Radmonovic, Byron Mullens, Spencer Hawes, Robert Horry, Channing Frye,......

    The reality is that Bargnani was never an elite 3-point shooter. He was a decent shooter with a sweet stroke, but Bargs just looked so much better because "that's a 7-footer out there, Chuck". And while Bargs was a serviceable post defender, he was clueless when it came to team defense, help and rotations.

    Comment


    • #32
      Axel wrote: View Post

      Does this mean multipaul was right all along?

      Seriously though, you do wonder how certain players would have fared if their career had started 2 years ago instead. Guys like Sam Perkins, Al Harrington, and yeah, maybe Bargnani. One thing that definitely hurt those Raps teams was the lack of interior strength with Bosh and Bargnani, so the logic that West poses certainly has merit.
      A broken clock is right twice a day. lol

      All the guys you named would fare a lot better now. There are even guys who were stars who would be even brighter stars were they entering now, like Peja Stojakovic for example.

      Comment


      • #33
        golden wrote: View Post

        It's a good point, but still guys like Kelly Olynyk & Frank Kaminsky are career backups, and Meyers Leonard is a 3rd string big, so big men still need to bring enough defense (post, PnR, help) to stay on the court. It's the last line of defense and coaches get fired because of that.

        But yeah, some big men who could hit 3's who are out of the league now: Brian Cook, Vlad Radmonovic, Byron Mullens, Spencer Hawes, Robert Horry, Channing Frye,......

        The reality is that Bargnani was never an elite 3-point shooter. He was a decent shooter with a sweet stroke, but Bargs just looked so much better because "that's a 7-footer out there, Chuck". And while Bargs was a serviceable post defender, he was clueless when it came to team defense, help and rotations.
        I think Bargnani was a better three-point shooter than his stats indicate. He wasn't coached by anyone who deserved to be a head coach in the NBA. That had an impact.

        Comment


        • #34
          golden wrote: View Post

          It's a good point, but still guys like Kelly Olynyk & Frank Kaminsky are career backups, and Meyers Leonard is a 3rd string big, so big men still need to bring enough defense (post, PnR, help) to stay on the court. It's the last line of defense and coaches get fired because of that.

          But yeah, some big men who could hit 3's who are out of the league now: Brian Cook, Vlad Radmonovic, Byron Mullens, Spencer Hawes, Robert Horry, Channing Frye,......

          The reality is that Bargnani was never an elite 3-point shooter. He was a decent shooter with a sweet stroke, but Bargs just looked so much better because "that's a 7-footer out there, Chuck". And while Bargs was a serviceable post defender, he was clueless when it came to team defense, help and rotations.
          Agreed, but there is also the coaching towards developing the right complementary skills might have helped those guys. Guys 10 years ago who could shoot but not big time players (again, Al Harrington is always the guy I think of) were constantly being derided for their inability to cover post ups of guys like West. If instead they had been coached more in ways modern guys are (think Pascal under Nurse), you have to wonder where they would have ended up. In the end, talent and drive will account for a lot, so for every guy that might be better in the modern era, there is probably another 10 who wouldn't have any tangible difference (see Myers Leonard). I doubt Bargs is part of the minority there but he'd certainly have a better chance today than he did.
          Heir, Prince of Cambridge

          If you see KeonClark in the wasteland, please share your food and water with him.

          Comment


          • #35
            Andrei Kirilenko! If he could have stayed healthy. Man was a fantasy team cheat code before he got hit by injuries. Imagine him in today's game.

            Then there are bigs who were great but were still asked to mostly post up, guys like Chris Webber and Bosh, they had skills their eras didn't take full advantage of (Bosh was getting there at the end in Miami). They could take you off the bounce, move the ball (especially C-Webb), and shoot 3's - today's game could make much better use of their skill set, I think they'd be even better now. There's a bunch of bigs like that historically.

            This part of the evolution of the game is good. You figure out how to maximize the skills of your skilled players. Big bodies just out there to knock people around and grab rebounds are mostly out of the league. There's more room for everybody else.
            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

            Comment


            • #36
              golden wrote: View Post

              It's a good point, but still guys like Kelly Olynyk & Frank Kaminsky are career backups, and Meyers Leonard is a 3rd string big, so big men still need to bring enough defense (post, PnR, help) to stay on the court. It's the last line of defense and coaches get fired because of that.

              But yeah, some big men who could hit 3's who are out of the league now: Brian Cook, Vlad Radmonovic, Byron Mullens, Spencer Hawes, Robert Horry, Channing Frye,......

              The reality is that Bargnani was never an elite 3-point shooter. He was a decent shooter with a sweet stroke, but Bargs just looked so much better because "that's a 7-footer out there, Chuck". And while Bargs was a serviceable post defender, he was clueless when it came to team defense, help and rotations.
              That's really the key part. Not sure why D. West is even bringing up Bargs name like he would have been great in today's NBA. If JV, who busted his ass on every possession, both on defense and offense, couldn't stay on the floor what chance does Andrea "defense is easy" Bargniani have? Click bait I believe they call it.

              Comment


              • #37
                LJ2 wrote: View Post

                That's really the key part. Not sure why D. West is even bringing up Bargs name like he would have been great in today's NBA. If JV, who busted his ass on every possession, both on defense and offense, couldn't stay on the floor what chance does Andrea "defense is easy" Bargniani have? Click bait I believe they call it.
                Because "this era plays no defense" is really popular stance these days. Listen to what D. West is saying. "They let us beat them up." He's trying to say a scrub like Bargs could be All-Star in this era. Because this era is soft. That's all
                Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Bargs biggest problem was he had no heart.

                  Being grabbed and bodied or not, the dude never got mad and said "enough" Not even once.
                  I kept yelling at him to remember he's Italian and show some intensity. Always thought he was just taking more time to come into his own. Instead he looked sleepy most of the time, it's no wonder they beat him up in the school yard.

                  A 7' linguine noodle

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    MixxAOR wrote: View Post

                    Because "this era plays no defense" is really popular stance these days. Listen to what D. West is saying. "They let us beat them up." He's trying to say a scrub like Bargs could be All-Star in this era. Because this era is soft. That's all
                    That's just an old school guy complaining about why his brand of basketball is fading away. Same as coach Pop complaining about the game because it's so 3 point shot focused and saying it's not real basketball anymore. The game moves forward whether you like it or not.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      LJ2 wrote: View Post

                      That's just an old school guy complaining about why his brand of basketball is fading away. Same as coach Pop complaining about the game because it's so 3 point shot focused and saying it's not real basketball anymore. The game moves forward whether you like it or not.
                      Playing no D, rampant phantom fouls with constant trips to the line, jacking up 3's at record rates may be moving forward but that doesn't mean in the right direction. The athletes are better, the game isn't necessarily so than a decade or two ago.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        G__Deane wrote: View Post

                        Playing no D, rampant phantom fouls with constant trips to the line, jacking up 3's at record rates may be moving forward but that doesn't mean in the right direction. The athletes are better, the game isn't necessarily so than a decade or two ago.
                        Yes, and the music kids listen to these days is awful. Back in my day...

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          congrats former raptors assistant coach nate bjorkgren. he was the coach i was most worried a potential contender like philly/LAC would hire.

                          pacers will be good but not sure they have the top shelf talent to rise above the 4-6 spots next year. smart hire though.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            G__Deane wrote: View Post
                            Bargs biggest problem was he had no heart.

                            Being grabbed and bodied or not, the dude never got mad and said "enough" Not even once.
                            I kept yelling at him to remember he's Italian and show some intensity. Always thought he was just taking more time to come into his own. Instead he looked sleepy most of the time, it's no wonder they beat him up in the school yard.

                            A 7' linguine noodle
                            My favourite part of the whole experience was the psychological assessment that pegged him as a cold blooded killer when in fact the nonchalance was due to him not giving a shit. Whoops.
                            "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              LJ2 wrote: View Post

                              Yes, and the music kids listen to these days is awful. Back in my day...
                              At least we're agreed there

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                S.R. wrote: View Post

                                My favourite part of the whole experience was the psychological assessment that pegged him as a cold blooded killer when in fact the nonchalance was due to him not giving a shit. Whoops.
                                (Unfortunately?) you often have to draft kids with a bit of azzhole in their DNA to be successful. Laid back just disguises a lack of hyper competitiveness that so many elite athletes have.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X