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  • guyroch wrote: View Post
    Canada is in good company .. Teams like Brazil and Lithuania won't be going . I think only U.S and Argentia are going to the Olympics from FIBA Americas
    Bottom line is Canada needs to be close to full strength to get through to the Olympics. We aren’t deep enough to go without Murray, SGA and key bigs like Olynyk and Thompson. Like many countries, we aren’t deep enough to guarantee advancement with our B or C team.

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    • Puffer wrote: View Post
      Not sure how this result plays out in the wider context. Will Canada Basketball lose support and credibility for the 20 years of disappointment? Do the better players decide what's the point of putting their health and reputations on the line if they aren't going to show up well? Or do the new crop of young and talented players get embarrassed with Canada's constant poor showing and engage with r=each other and decide it's time to get it done?

      There is no doubt it takes years of commitment to the program to be able to field a quality team. This was only a preliminary, and had more NBA players in it than any other country can field in the Olympics outside of the USA. But no continuity of players, no experience playing together. This country needs at least 10 players to commit to continually show up for 4 years. I hope that happens.
      Can it be Canada's strengthen is also their downfall ? Next to the U.S they can field 2 or 3 teams that could have more NBA players then any other opponent they face which means the faces change at every major tournament . The last time Canada did qualify Nash and the core played together for many years ..

      You want to see Canada's dream team show up . You would have to have the World Championships in Toronto . Heck the only time Rick Fox put on a Canadian jersey was when the tournament was in Toronto .
      Last edited by guyroch; Mon Jul 5, 2021, 09:48 AM.

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      • slaw wrote: View Post

        Bottom line is Canada needs to be close to full strength to get through to the Olympics. We aren’t deep enough to go without Murray, SGA and key bigs like Olynyk and Thompson. Like many countries, we aren’t deep enough to guarantee advancement with our B or C team.
        Our "B & C" team that played in Victoria already had way more talent than anybody else in that tournament. We're getting our shorts in a knot because 37-year old journeyman, Blake Schilb, had the game of his life? We got 9 NBA players to show up - that's ultra deep enough. Feels like a lot of over-reaction in here.

        It's more about how to "peak" for one & done games. Canada came out with no urgency and thought we could turn it on... which we did. But we cut it too close.

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        • golden wrote: View Post

          Our "B & C" team that played in Victoria already had way more talent than anybody else in that tournament. We're getting our shorts in a knot because 37-year old journeyman, Blake Schilb, had the game of his life? We got 9 NBA players to show up - that's ultra deep enough. Feels like a lot of over-reaction in here.

          It's more about how to "peak" for one & done games. Canada came out with no urgency and thought we could turn it on... which we did. But we cut it too close.
          But you can’t peak playing for 5 days together. The overwhelming firepower would help offset that problem.

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          • slaw wrote: View Post

            But you can’t peak playing for 5 days together. The overwhelming firepower would help offset that problem.
            Every team is in the same situation, re: peaking for one game. Satoransky joined the team when they landed in Canada. Schilb didn't play on the national until 2 years ago. He didn't even play in the earlier tournament games. How's that for chemistry building?

            What you can control is how much urgency and effort you come out with. This game was exactly like the 2019 Raptors vs. Orlando Game 1, when DJ Augustin hit the game winner. IIRC, Nurse ripped into his players after that game to play harder, and the rest is history. Except in FIBA, you don't get a second chance.

            Even with Murray & SGA playing ... you come out lackadaisical against an inferior opponent and you're just asking for trouble. It felt like Canada was banking on their talent and depth advantage to pull them though eventually - and it almost did. If the game was 10 minutes longer, I'm pretty sure Canada takes it. If that's a playoff series, then Canada probably wins 4-1.

            They needed to come out like it was an NBA Game 7. Maybe that is where the lack of FIBA experience comes into play - not understanding the urgency and 'every possession' counts mentality of FIBA. You don't really experience that in the NBA, other than elimination games.

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              • You put Thompson on that team we win the qualifier no problem. Or just hit the wide open 3s. The chemistry thing is overblown, I didn't see a lack of chemistry, I saw a lack of big men and a lack of hitting wide open 3s. A lack of chemistry would be mean lots of turnovers (we only had 8) or lack of open shots (most of our shots were good open shots). We got out rebounded handedly and shot 24% from 3. That's the game in a nutshell. Chemistry is not the problem.

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                • slaw wrote: View Post

                  But you can’t peak playing for 5 days together. The overwhelming firepower would help offset that problem.
                  Peak ? Cory Joseph who had the most experience playing in FIBA on the roster had 3 points vs Czech ( -21 ) 3 Points against vs China and 3 points against Greece . I love Cory Joseph cause he always says yes to Canada but PG is one of the key positions in FIBA competions and by that productivity he must have not came into camp in game shape . We keep saying we started off slow well Cory was starting in every game .

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                  • guyroch wrote: View Post

                    Peak ? Cory Joseph who had the most experience playing in FIBA on the roster had 3 points vs Czech ( -21 ) 3 Points against vs China and 3 points against Greece . I love Cory Joseph cause he always says yes to Canada but PG is one of the key positions in FIBA competions and by that productivity he must have not came into camp in game shape . We keep saying we started off slow well Cory was starting in every game .
                    Yeah, I feel bad for CoJo. He's been there for Team Canada through thick & thin. He's the team captain. And Nurse did realize he was sucking, so he only played him 18 minutes.... but that was 18 minutes too many.

                    I guess the same issue with urgency also applies to the coaches. You don't want to hurt CoJo's feelings, but it's do or die.... kind of like when Casey did the un-thinkable and benched DeMar in game 7 vs. the Pacers; otherwise, we were losing that game in embarrassing fashion.

                    The Scrubbs died..... for this?

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                    • Primer wrote: View Post
                      You put Thompson on that team we win the qualifier no problem. Or just hit the wide open 3s. The chemistry thing is overblown, I didn't see a lack of chemistry, I saw a lack of big men and a lack of hitting wide open 3s. A lack of chemistry would be mean lots of turnovers (we only had 8) or lack of open shots (most of our shots were good open shots). We got out rebounded handedly and shot 24% from 3. That's the game in a nutshell. Chemistry is not the problem.
                      Wow what a great point . Please don't blame chemistry or coaching . Nurse drew up a great last play and the player had a great look and he just misses . He missed like it seemed every shot through out the game . We had good looks through out the game and we just stunk up the joint with shooting . These group of guys could have played together for years but if you shoot like how they did then how do you expect to win .

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                      • golden wrote: View Post

                        Yeah, I feel bad for CoJo. He's been there for Team Canada through thick & thin. He's the team captain. And Nurse did realize he was sucking, so he only played him 18 minutes.... but that was 18 minutes too many.

                        I guess the same issue with urgency also applies to the coaches. You don't want to hurt CoJo's feelings, but it's do or die.... kind of like when Casey did the un-thinkable and benched DeMar in game 7 vs. the Pacers; otherwise, we were losing that game in embarrassing fashion.

                        The Scrubbs died..... for this?
                        I am sorry but Cojo wasn't in the same continent when camp opened . At the last Worlds I remember till the last moment we didn't know if he was coming until the last moment . He is saying yes but is he taking his obligation seriously . He acts like he is doing Canada basketball a favor for showing up . It is like okay I will come but don't expect anything .

                        Kevin Pangos would have been a great asset but guys like him are proably saying to themselves now . I am only going to get a invite if all NBA players say no .

                        Last edited by guyroch; Mon Jul 5, 2021, 12:19 PM.

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                        • Primer wrote: View Post
                          You put Thompson on that team we win the qualifier no problem. Or just hit the wide open 3s. The chemistry thing is overblown, I didn't see a lack of chemistry, I saw a lack of big men and a lack of hitting wide open 3s. A lack of chemistry would be mean lots of turnovers (we only had 8) or lack of open shots (most of our shots were good open shots). We got out rebounded handedly and shot 24% from 3. That's the game in a nutshell. Chemistry is not the problem.
                          People have this idea that all these international teams have been playing together every summer since they were kids and everybody shows up for every tournament. And they just pick up where they left off, 2 or 3 years ago, with no-look passes and perfect chemistry. It's not like that.... even more so with Covid disrupting everything the last few years. People are just stunned because we lost while being the overwhelming favorite and now grasping at excuses to rationalize why it's not a big disappointing failure.

                          It comes down to the specific in-game execution points you listed ... and I'd add, also guarding the 3-pt line better and stop random scrubs from going off for 30. Your defense can't give up interior AND perimeter at the same time, which is what we did.

                          Thompson would most definitely help us get a few more offensive rebounds, but he wouldn't help us from 3. And he'd kill the spacing, since they packed the paint and also played a lot of zone to stop our drivers. But still, the OREB rebound battle ended up being close, 12-11 for them. We didn't get slaughtered there. Also, a lot of their DREBs were long rebounds from 3-ball misses, which I don't think TT helps that much with - that's more about hustle and energy. Still, Lyles had 11 rebounds... does TT get more than that? Probably. Maybe just enough OREBs with a couple put-backs to win a nail-biter.
                          Last edited by golden; Mon Jul 5, 2021, 12:26 PM.

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                          • Primer wrote: View Post
                            You put Thompson on that team we win the qualifier no problem. Or just hit the wide open 3s. The chemistry thing is overblown, I didn't see a lack of chemistry, I saw a lack of big men and a lack of hitting wide open 3s. A lack of chemistry would be mean lots of turnovers (we only had 8) or lack of open shots (most of our shots were good open shots). We got out rebounded handedly and shot 24% from 3. That's the game in a nutshell. Chemistry is not the problem.
                            This. The lack of bigs was the biggest issue. You put any combination of Birch, Boucher, Olynk, Thompson in there and now we go from being thin to stacked. If everyone who could have played did (no injuries or contract talk) Lyles probably doesn't see much floor time. They didnt show and he ends up taking the last shot. Given that the majority of our players were under 30 and some key guys under 25, I see bright days coming.

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                            • golden wrote: View Post

                              Birch, Boucher and Olynyk are easily explainable... they have no guaranteed contract for next year. What's TT's excuse? Hitting up another Kardashian?

                              Where's Tristan Thompson at..... when you actually NeedTristanThompson
                              Darn... this post was prophetic.

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                              • Puffer wrote: View Post
                                Not sure how this result plays out in the wider context. Will Canada Basketball lose support and credibility for the 20 years of disappointment? Do the better players decide what's the point of putting their health and reputations on the line if they aren't going to show up well? Or do the new crop of young and talented players get embarrassed with Canada's constant poor showing and engage with r=each other and decide it's time to get it done?

                                There is no doubt it takes years of commitment to the program to be able to field a quality team. This was only a preliminary, and had more NBA players in it than any other country can field in the Olympics outside of the USA. But no continuity of players, no experience playing together. This country needs at least 10 players to commit to continually show up for 4 years. I hope that happens.
                                The program needs reform and consistency. USAB had the same problem, they were underachieving, they created a much more structured, multi-tiered and multi-year program with an emphasis on commitment and continuity (and that started at the top and went all the way down in the program) and it paid off. Started winning golds again. Canadian men's program has to do the same to reach their potential. It's a revolving door from top to bottom the past 20 years.

                                You can blame individual factors from game to game, but over the past 20 years the program is clearly underachieving and it's a systemic problem. Those silly Czechs? Their program is ranked 12th in FIBA and Canada is 21st. Tossing a few NBA players who have rarely played together onto the same team with a new coach on short notice does not suddenly launch your 15+ spots up the rankings. Program needs commitment and continuity from all involved.
                                "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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