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  • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
    You gotta hope that Wiggins can grow into that role as well. Hopefully this was a good lesson for him because he's got a lot of work to do to become any kind of takeover player. His ability to power into his finishing step with the dribble (ala Lebron, Harden, DeMar, Ginobili, et al) needs to get a lot better.

    Having a 3-ball ready-to-go at his tender age won't hurt though.
    tournament did nothing to kill the Canadian kids lacking a killer instinct criticism

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    • Glad they got 3rd in a close-fought game. They got taken down a peg by the Venezuela loss, and now they should be even more motivated to show what they've got next summer.

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      • Looking forward to a full team next year though.

        Ennis
        Murray
        Thompson
        Lyles

        Plus more experience for the current squad.

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        • mjt20mik wrote: View Post
          ...Plus more experience for the current squad.
          Canadian players should be one year better (one of the youngest international teams around because of the VC bump to young basketball fans involvement in the game) and most international teams will have a bunch of aged vets one year older. As you say, hopefully the Canadian team also gets a few more guys involved.

          The VC bump is something unique to Canada, and is an interesting phenomena.

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          • Puffer wrote: View Post
            Canadian players should be one year better (one of the youngest international teams around because of the VC bump to young basketball fans involvement in the game) and most international teams will have a bunch of aged vets one year older. As you say, hopefully the Canadian team also gets a few more guys involved.

            The VC bump is something unique to Canada, and is an interesting phenomena.


            Am I the only one that thinks that the credit given to Vince Carter is overblown? I would think that the NBA expansion to Canada has more to do with it than the VC effect. Also we have seen a growth in Basketball worldwide, and Vince has nothing to do with that. I would think the Original Dream team started the wave and things grew from there.
            Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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            • WJF wrote: View Post
              [/B]

              Am I the only one that thinks that the credit given to Vince Carter is overblown?
              We would all be playing hockey if it wasnt for him

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              • 92TillInfinity wrote: View Post
                We would all be playing hockey if it wasnt for him
                Just no true. I am a 40 plus year old white guy from a town of 150 people, I never played organized hockey and have loved hoops since the Bad Boys were beating up on the Bulls. I used to tune in to AM radio stations from the USA to listen o games. I would think the rise of Rap and HipHop playe a larger role than VC, he just gave the train another gear.
                Twitter @WJ_FINDLAY

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                • [QUOTE=WJF;517767]Just no true. I am a 40 plus year old white guy from a town of 150 people, I never played organized hockey and have loved hoops since the Bad Boys were beating up on the Bulls..../QUOTE]

                  That would put you in the minority, I am guessing. When you look at the age of the Canadian teams players (early to mid twenties) and the Raps inaugural season (1996) the older Canadian players were 7-8 when the team started playing and were 9-10 at the start of Vince's first season. He was with the Raps for 6 seasons, which puts the bulk of this years National team players in their early to mid-teens. If they were sports minded, it would be pretty hard not to be electrified by the regular highlights shown on Sports Center etc.

                  Of course, we'd have to do a survey, but I don't question that simply getting a couple of NBA teams into Canada didn't have a big impact. But I do believe that this wave of players coming on now is because a bunch of 7-10 year old kids were mesmerized by Vince, and decided to pursue Bball instead of hockey. The cost of playing hockey also helped, of course. And having a black athlete, on a pro team in Canada also provided a hero for young black kids to wish to emulate.

                  But a survey would be interesting.

                  Comment


                  • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                    I'd argue that Canada did get steamrolled, in that they should have won the game by 25, and yet they lost by 2.

                    And I don't think it's an excuse to say they lost because they're young and inexperienced. Basketball seems to be, for whatever reason, a sport where you need to take your lumps and losses before breaking through to the top. The NBA certainly works like that - even generational talents like Jordan, Shaq, Kobe and Lebron had a bunch of tough playoff losses before winning a title.

                    I'd also argue that, just based on the personalities of this group playing for team Canada - which doesn't really have a single dominant/alpha/leader type - the youth and lack of experience was even more crucial. That's why I think Murray is going to be key to the success of this team going forward, because he seems like the one guy who can step into that role.
                    Great counter, Jimi, as I would expect. Totally agree on the lack of Canuck alpha-dog/killer/clutch DNA/It factor type of player. Wiggins isn't that guy, yet, or may never be. Maybe we can offer Paul Pierce citizenship, or Nash needs to suit up to play 4th quarters, because Murray's only 18 years old and CoJo has tons of FIBA experience at the junior levels and is NBA finals tested. So, if it's all about gaining experience then are we looking at 5-7 more years of heartbreak and disappointment until we can even be on par with Venezuela (minus their best player)? That paints a pretty bleak picture.

                    And if we go with your alpha-dog mentality, then wouldn't you also want/need an alpha dog type of coach? I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Jay Triano is probably as good an assistant coach as it gets, but there are doubts about him being the main guy. That Venezuela coach was crazy af, but looking past that insanity, he did 3 things that really helped his team: (1) he made a major adjustment to the game plan from the previous game (i.e. trap/attack the ball-handlers & slow down the transition game), (2) instilled confidence in his team that they could beat the Canuck goliaths, (3) worked over the refs to get that one extra call that they needed. Again, not calling for Triano's head, but I still think that game was winnable with adjustments.

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post
                      Great counter, Jimi, as I would expect. Totally agree on the lack of Canuck alpha-dog/killer/clutch DNA/It factor type of player. Wiggins isn't that guy, yet, or may never be. Maybe we can offer Paul Pierce citizenship, or Nash needs to suit up to play 4th quarters, because Murray's only 18 years old and CoJo has tons of FIBA experience at the junior levels and is NBA finals tested. So, if it's all about gaining experience then are we looking at 5-7 more years of heartbreak and disappointment until we can even be on par with Venezuela (minus their best player)? That paints a pretty bleak picture.

                      And if we go with your alpha-dog mentality, then wouldn't you also want/need an alpha dog type of coach? I'm pretty sure we can all agree that Jay Triano is probably as good an assistant coach as it gets, but there are doubts about him being the main guy. That Venezuela coach was crazy af, but looking past that insanity, he did 3 things that really helped his team: (1) he made a major adjustment to the game plan from the previous game (i.e. trap/attack the ball-handlers & slow down the transition game), (2) instilled confidence in his team that they could beat the Canuck goliaths, (3) worked over the refs to get that one extra call that they needed. Again, not calling for Triano's head, but I still think that game was winnable with adjustments.

                      Yeah, it was a winnable game - basically a coin flip. (Also, no one's really mentioned how one of their guards - Ruiz? - pulled at least three 3 pointers totally out of his ass. Venezuela, in addition to playing well, had a lot of luck.)

                      5-7 more years of heartbreak? I don't think so. I'll bet if Canada played Venezuela again today, with the exact same stakes, they'd win by 10-15.

                      Is Triano the right coach going forward? That's an excellent question. He might not be; an A-type personality might be what this team really needs.
                      "Stop eating your sushi."
                      "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                      "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                      - Jack Armstrong

                      Comment


                      • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                        Yeah, it was a winnable game - basically a coin flip. (Also, no one's really mentioned how one of their guards - Ruiz? - pulled at least three 3 pointers totally out of his ass. Venezuela, in addition to playing well, had a lot of luck.)

                        5-7 more years of heartbreak? I don't think so. I'll bet if Canada played Venezuela again today, with the exact same stakes, they'd win by 10-15.

                        Is Triano the right coach going forward? That's an excellent question. He might not be; an A-type personality might be what this team really needs.

                        I saw Jay with a clip board and no matter what he drew up it seems the PG decided he didn't like what was on the board and did it his way ..

                        Comment


                        • guyroch wrote: View Post
                          I saw Jay with a clip board and no matter what he drew up it seems the PG decided he didn't like what was on the board and did it his way ..
                          It seemed to me that oftentimes, the players just couldn't understand what he wanted them to do - they'd start walking away before he'd finished talking, like everything was just going over their heads.

                          I remember one big end of game play - can't remember if it was Venezuela or Mexico - where he was totally incoherent. He started drawing something up, then decided halfway through he didn't like it, and started a new one - but there wasn't enough time for him to finish...
                          "Stop eating your sushi."
                          "I do actually have a pair of Uggs."
                          "I've had three cups of green tea tonight. I'm wired. I'm absolutely wired."
                          - Jack Armstrong

                          Comment


                          • JimiCliff wrote: View Post
                            It seemed to me that oftentimes, the players just couldn't understand what he wanted them to do - they'd start walking away before he'd finished talking, like everything was just going over their heads.

                            I remember one big end of game play - can't remember if it was Venezuela or Mexico - where he was totally incoherent. He started drawing something up, then decided halfway through he didn't like it, and started a new one - but there wasn't enough time for him to finish...
                            Again, keeping on the alpha-dog theme, I think it applies to coaching too (and life in general, really). Some people are just really great at making quick decisions in the moment under pressure, and some guys are great behind the scenes when they have enough time to digest the the flood of new information, break down film, analyze, etc....

                            Down the road, I could see Jay transitioning to more of a behind-the-scenes role, just like the role he played with USA Basketball. Unfortunately, that would probably have to be triggered by a few more disappointing losses at tournaments like these.

                            Comment


                            • golden wrote: View Post
                              Again, keeping on the alpha-dog theme, I think it applies to coaching too (and life in general, really). Some people are just really great at making quick decisions in the moment under pressure, and some guys are great behind the scenes when they have enough time to digest the the flood of new information, break down film, analyze, etc....

                              Down the road, I could see Jay transitioning to more of a behind-the-scenes role, just like the role he played with USA Basketball. Unfortunately, that would probably have to be triggered by a few more disappointing losses at tournaments like these.
                              Could constant blow outs hurt this team in that last game .. This core had no last shot experience as a group ...

                              Comment


                              • golden wrote: View Post
                                Again, keeping on the alpha-dog theme, I think it applies to coaching too (and life in general, really). Some people are just really great at making quick decisions in the moment under pressure, and some guys are great behind the scenes when they have enough time to digest the the flood of new information, break down film, analyze, etc....

                                Down the road, I could see Jay transitioning to more of a behind-the-scenes role, just like the role he played with USA Basketball. Unfortunately, that would probably have to be triggered by a few more disappointing losses at tournaments like these.
                                Why not keep Jay as Head coach cause he is Steve Nash's buddy but when last minute and game is on the line then you have the assistant coach handle the clip board .. I recall that is what Leo did when he was coach ...

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