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  • DanH wrote: View Post

    Yeah, we'd be pooched for 2021 if we had Jrue and also kept FVV and OG, even if we dumped Powell.
    Thanks. Don’t think Masai does that.

    I know conventional wisdom seems to be that we resign Fred. But could it work to ship Fred out with extra salary (would that have to be serge)? In Nola’s example they’d have to know they could sign him long term (would a sign and trade make sense here?)

    Fred would give them a young guy to add to their young core. In the short term probably makes them worse, which is good for them too as they should be going for the best pick possible and featuring their young guys. Losing with a purpose as Mitchell likes to say.

    A backcourt of KL and Jrue and then Kyle comes off the books after next year.

    Doable?

    Comment


    • KeonClark wrote: View Post

      Who decided both of these statements to be true?
      Well at some point we stopped putting imo at the end of our sentences because it was obvious. I guess I can start back with the imo's.

      I justify that by considering his age, size and athleticism. He can refine his shooting, make smarter plays but he's not going to become more explosive, taller, faster. Whereas for example Siakam has all the raw tools to take bigger leaps as he refines his shooting, and gains basketball IQ.

      Fred is a great back-up guard and a decent starter, but not an All Star imo. Do you think FVV is worth 20M - 25M a year, on a long term deal? I'd be inclined to move Fred in a package with Norm or even one of Gasol or Sege if it can get a future All Star to tag team with Siakam.

      Is FVV and Norm for say CJ McCollum doable? Good move for both teams?

      Comment


      • LJ2 wrote: View Post

        Well at some point we stopped putting imo at the end of our sentences because it was obvious. I guess I can start back with the imo's.

        I justify that by considering his age, size and athleticism. He can refine his shooting, make smarter plays but he's not going to become more explosive, taller, faster. Whereas for example Siakam has all the raw tools to take bigger leaps as he refines his shooting, and gains basketball IQ.

        Fred is a great back-up guard and a decent starter, but not an All Star imo. Do you think FVV is worth 20M - 25M a year, on a long term deal? I'd be inclined to move Fred in a package with Norm or even one of Gasol or Sege if it can get a future All Star to tag team with Siakam.

        Is FVV and Norm for say CJ McCollum doable? Good move for both teams?
        25 is a bit young to be thinking someone has peaked.

        Fred is at the very least a high end role player, and high end role players are indeed worth 20M in UFA these days. All stars make 30-40M in UFA.

        And yeah, if we can get a star for a bunch of role players (no matter how good) we obviously do that but I doubt that's on the table unless we are also pitching in additional quality prospects and picks.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • big boi wrote: View Post

          Thanks. Don’t think Masai does that.

          I know conventional wisdom seems to be that we resign Fred. But could it work to ship Fred out with extra salary (would that have to be serge)? In Nola’s example they’d have to know they could sign him long term (would a sign and trade make sense here?)

          Fred would give them a young guy to add to their young core. In the short term probably makes them worse, which is good for them too as they should be going for the best pick possible and featuring their young guys. Losing with a purpose as Mitchell likes to say.

          A backcourt of KL and Jrue and then Kyle comes off the books after next year.

          Doable?
          It's doable. Not sure if it's advisable. Jrue is 29 already and will be 31 in 2021 when we'd hopefully be pitching another star on our young core. He hasn't exactly been super healthy his entire career either, and those things don't usually get better with age.

          More importantly, is Jrue, even when healthy, dramatically better than Fred? Because he's already on a contract that people are shying away from offering FVV.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

          Comment


          • LJ2 wrote: View Post

            Well at some point we stopped putting imo at the end of our sentences because it was obvious. I guess I can start back with the imo's.

            I justify that by considering his age, size and athleticism. He can refine his shooting, make smarter plays but he's not going to become more explosive, taller, faster. Whereas for example Siakam has all the raw tools to take bigger leaps as he refines his shooting, and gains basketball IQ.

            Fred is a great back-up guard and a decent starter, but not an All Star imo. Do you think FVV is worth 20M - 25M a year, on a long term deal? I'd be inclined to move Fred in a package with Norm or even one of Gasol or Sege if it can get a future All Star to tag team with Siakam.

            Is FVV and Norm for say CJ McCollum doable? Good move for both teams?
            $20M doesn't really mean all-star though. $25M is on the high end. But it's what Gasol is making now, and he's no longer an all-star. It's a good/decent starter's salary though. Fred has limitations but he's still only 25. He is still an elite perimeter defender. Lowry wasn't really Lowry until he was 26-27. He came to the Raptors at 26 and was coming off the bench for Jose (although that was dumb).

            And you could argue that Fred was playing at an all-star pace when Kyle went down.

            We always needed a contingency plan when father time caught up to Kyle. Fred is that. We have TD in our pipeline now so that makes Fred a little bit more expendable. But I don't think the team looks at TD as the man yet. He's losing minutes to McCaw right now for example.

            I don't think CJ for Fred helps us. CJ is a great/elite scorer.. but he's a mediocre poor defender. With age catching up to Kyle, he's not the defender he used to be. I wouldn't make that deal.

            Personally I'd like to bring Fred back closer to the $20M mark.. and as high as Brogdon (who got $85M/4). Add some incentives/bonuses like all-nba for him to deserve the end of that and I'm cool. Don't think he should get a $100M contract in the summer.. and I doubt anyone would give that to him.

            Rozier was overpaid, but still only got $58/3 and that was from a small market team that generally over pays to get talent.

            Comment


            • DanH wrote: View Post

              25 is a bit young to be thinking someone has peaked.

              Fred is at the very least a high end role player, and high end role players are indeed worth 20M in UFA these days. All stars make 30-40M in UFA.

              And yeah, if we can get a star for a bunch of role players (no matter how good) we obviously do that but I doubt that's on the table unless we are also pitching in additional quality prospects and picks.
              Like I said I think he will refine parts of his game, but he lacks the raw tools to take the leap to an all star player imo. Lowry as an example of a player with similar size is much more explosive, stronger and has a relentless gear which I don't see in FVV. Lou Williams is making $8M as perennial 6MOY candidate. I say you sell high on FVV if his price is in the range being discussed.

              Comment


              • DanH wrote: View Post

                It's doable. Not sure if it's advisable. Jrue is 29 already and will be 31 in 2021 when we'd hopefully be pitching another star on our young core. He hasn't exactly been super healthy his entire career either, and those things don't usually get better with age.

                More importantly, is Jrue, even when healthy, dramatically better than Fred? Because he's already on a contract that people are shying away from offering FVV.
                Yes. I think a healthy Jrue is dramatically better than Fred. And for this team he’d add an elite player on the defensive side of the ball, which seems like the culture we want to foster, and considerably more size.

                A lineup of Kyle, Jrue, OG, Pascal and Gasol would be nasty. Also doesn’t preclude Masai doing other deals.

                Not that I’m itching to move Fred tho.

                Comment


                • LJ2 wrote: View Post

                  Like I said I think he will refine parts of his game, but he lacks the raw tools to take the leap to an all star player imo. Lowry as an example of a player with similar size is much more explosive, stronger and has a relentless gear which I don't see in FVV. Lou Williams is making $8M as perennial 6MOY candidate. I say you sell high on FVV if his price is in the range being discussed.
                  Yea but Lou is drastically underpaid and is 33 years old. He took a discount to stay out after playing on so many different teams

                  Comment


                  • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

                    Yea but Lou is drastically underpaid and is 33 years old. He took a discount to stay out after playing on so many different teams
                    Lou Will is taking the same "discount" that most of the Clippers free agents seem to be taking. Strange how they're all willing to leave money on table to play for Ballmer. Must be the weather.

                    Comment


                    • golden wrote: View Post

                      Lou Will is taking the same "discount" that most of the Clippers free agents seem to be taking. Strange how they're all willing to leave money on table to play for Ballmer. Must be the weather.
                      If that happened in MLB, the agents and PA would be taking out Lou Williams' agent (and possibly Lou Williams) for a little chat and an offer he couldn't refuse...

                      Comment


                      • slaw wrote: View Post

                        If that happened in MLB, the agents and PA would be taking out Lou Williams' agent (and possibly Lou Williams) for a little chat and an offer he couldn't refuse...
                        Hey, remember how the NBA said they were going to do an investigation into alleged salary cap circumventing 'gifts' being offered to Uncle Dennis and the Clippers? Then, a few months later the NBA came out and said they wanted to put some penalties in place regarding this kind of stuff + tampering.

                        Funny how the findings and details of the Uncle Dennis investigation were never made public, and yet the corrective measures were put in place. At least for optics. Gee, I wonder what the NBA actually found? Hmmm....

                        Comment


                        • golden wrote: View Post

                          Hey, remember how the NBA said they were going to do an investigation into alleged salary cap circumventing 'gifts' being offered to Uncle Dennis and the Clippers? Then, a few months later the NBA came out and said they wanted to put some penalties in place regarding this kind of stuff + tampering.

                          Funny how the findings and details of the Uncle Dennis investigation were never made public, and yet the corrective measures were put in place. At least for optics. Gee, I wonder what the NBA actually found? Hmmm....
                          If only we had an industry that employed thousands of people whose sole job was writing and talking about sports to ask those questions and find out.....

                          Comment


                          • I been watching and everyone on this team can be traded.

                            fred and Lowry are good because they can work in the system and know the system so if a trade was to happen at the point guard position then we need to keep one of them.

                            Shooting guard is a huge issue for us Bradley Beal would be perfect for Us but Washington is not trading him they need value for him. A Powell package maybe? I like Matt as a start because he spaces the floor and forces Lowry or Fred to use pascal as the prime option.

                            The 3 spot should be pascal but I understand why they play him at the 4. so og is our place holder and he is a pure role player but b lacks Athleticism and ball handling to be scorer in this league. Can we upgrade here?

                            Pascal, Gasol, Ibaka, Boucher is solid I personally thought we missed out on Christian woods but whatever.

                            Comment


                            • "SAN ANTONIO — The crowd in San Antonio turned on Kawhi Leonard again, showering the Clippers forward with deafening boos and angry shouts.

                              Leonard shrugged — and dominated."

                              and

                              "Antetokounmpo had secured his triple-double by midway through the third quarter after playing just 23 minutes. It appeared for a while that he was going to be finished for the night at that point, but he was eventually called on for some fourth-quarter minutes.

                              He took only 10 shots, making eight."

                              Raps need a superstar plan for 2021, even someone like a Beal or Jimmy Buckets type to pair with Siakam. By then we need to replace Kyle, Serge and Gasol. That's a helluva mountain to climb even for Masai.....

                              Comment


                              • G__Deane wrote: View Post
                                "SAN ANTONIO — The crowd in San Antonio turned on Kawhi Leonard again, showering the Clippers forward with deafening boos and angry shouts.

                                Leonard shrugged — and dominated."

                                and

                                "Antetokounmpo had secured his triple-double by midway through the third quarter after playing just 23 minutes. It appeared for a while that he was going to be finished for the night at that point, but he was eventually called on for some fourth-quarter minutes.

                                He took only 10 shots, making eight."

                                Raps need a superstar plan for 2021, even someone like a Beal or Jimmy Buckets type to pair with Siakam. By then we need to replace Kyle, Serge and Gasol. That's a helluva mountain to climb even for Masai.....
                                You know, I noticed since Kawhi left you've been posting a lot on how great non-raptor players are, how good it must feel to be a fan of another team etc... But the reality is, we ain't too shabby my man, and we're poised to continue growing in the next few years even though we had a great player leave. It's just that the grass always seem to be a bit greener on the other side. On this game that Kawhi "dominated" he had 26/7/9. Siakam is no Kawhi but he's averaging 25/8/3.5. (So yeah Kawhi had more assists but nothing glaring). We all hear about the 50pt Harden game every month but what has his team done? If Nurse decided that Siakam would take 45% of the whole team's shots he'd be putting up 50 from time to time as well.

                                I know it's about the playoffs, but with over a third of the season completed we actually have a better winning % than the "scary good clippers" as of the time I type this. We'd be 2nd in the West right now, and that's with all the injuries. As for Beal & Butler, people seem to dream about these guys all the time but the reality is neither have been past the 2nd round in their whole careers. Meanwhile we have a roster still laden with champions (albeit aging, but so is Butler), with significant deep playoff experience even before the championship. On top of that we have the best front office in the league. We may not be poised to repeat right away but I like our outlook for the future
                                2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

                                Comment

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