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  • bertarapsfan wrote: View Post

    Boucher wont even play in the playoffs
    CAMH can help you brother. I believe in you.

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    • DanH wrote: View Post

      We do not need more guard play. Lowry is awesome. FVV is very good. Davis can provide a boost off the bench. Norm is plenty good as a 4th guard, and frankly they can live without any real 4th guard in the playoffs so even if they trade him it wouldn't matter. Heck when Siakam is healthy there will be times we run OG as a guard.

      As for facilitators, that's a different discussion than "guard." We are currently missing our 2nd and 3rd best facilitators, Siakam and Gasol. I agree without both those guys we lack facilitators. But without those guys we are screwed regardless.

      If we were talking about trading for another all star to drive the offence this would make sense. Adding a Jeff Teague will not help this team.
      hahaha DanH I'm just worried dude. I'm worried we don't have enough. and I think we could shuffle our least valuable assets for better ones regardless of whatever names I shouted out.

      I guess we'll see where it all goes. But I mean this thread is titled "to trade or not to trade" so I guess there is a looming uncertainty present.

      we're in 2 different camps on this topic. I just trust Masai does the right thing.

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      • golden wrote: View Post

        Fred's playing 36 minutes and throwing up more shots and more threes than he ever has to get 18 PPG.

        The easiest thing to do in the NBA is to give a guard an unconditional green light to inflate raw scoring numbers. I mean, Miami's letting a rookie (Kendrick Nunn) play 30 minutes and chuck 15 shots per game, and he's almost getting 16 PPG.

        Difference is that Nunn and Burks are both making under $2M per year, while everybody around here seems to think that we should be happy paying FVV $20M/year.

        So, I agree with you..... let's give Davis more minutes.
        Comparing FVV playing major minutes and different roles on a team that is 24-12 to a guy playing carefree on a team with 9 wins is exactly the trap I am talking about. Not all minutes are equal and neither is production.

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        • c-troop wrote: View Post

          hahaha DanH I'm just worried dude. I'm worried we don't have enough. and I think we could shuffle our least valuable assets for better ones regardless of whatever names I shouted out.

          I guess we'll see where it all goes. But I mean this thread is titled "to trade or not to trade" so I guess there is a looming uncertainty present.

          we're in 2 different camps on this topic. I just trust Masai does the right thing.
          The problem is that a lot of these moves are like adding new speakers to the car in January when you are about to head off into the mountains on summer tires. While it's true that they are better than your current speakers they don't really address the main problem.

          If you're not adding a player who really transforms the team (i.e. a superstar) or a player who materially improves a real area of need (e.g. another big who can space the floor and rebound or a big scoring SG) then you are probably better off rolling with the team you have.

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          • slaw wrote: View Post

            Comparing FVV playing major minutes and different roles on a team that is 24-12 to a guy playing carefree on a team with 9 wins is exactly the trap I am talking about. Not all minutes are equal and neither is production.
            Roles and minutes, especially in the case of FVV, can be largely based on a coaches decision and who else is on the roster. Take a guy like George Hill (who's making only $8M/year). He's an above average 2-way PG with efficiency off-the-charts this year. He's a backup on the Bucks because they have Bledsoe and the Bucks want more size at the 2 spot, so Hill is dominating as a legit backup PG.

            If Hill was on the Raptors, he could easily be starting and putting up numbers at efficiency greater than FVV. So, if you want to talk about apples-to-apples, there's a guy with exactly FVV's skillset contributing major production on the top team in the NBA. The only difference between Hill and FVV is minutes and usage. These type of guys are available every year, as Hill was signed for a fraction of the cost just this off-season.

            Point being, you could plug a number of guys from different teams into the Raptors and they'd be easily matching or surpassing what FVV brings.

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            • George Hill is 8 years older than FVV

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              • I still think we should offer Fred and Serge for Jrue Holiday and a protected first. People said in November New Orleans wouldn't be interested in VanVleet but I think they would be now. It raises our ceiling considerably. Siakam-Jrue-Kyle is a legit big 3 that can go at anyone in the East this side of the Bucks. Norm slots in comfortably as bench back court scorer. More minutes for Terrence Davis as a ball handler. And Jrue can take over for Kyles scoring as he ages.

                Also ends up saving us cap money, gets us something for Serge and we don't have to pay Fred, thats (essentially) like 45+ million outgoing vs 26 million incoming.

                It would suck, still a tough pill to swallow because the chemistry of the team is great and I love both Ibaka and FVV, but our ceiling would be raised, as well our offense and defense, so if we wanna take a swing at this year AND keep a sexy core for free agency 2021, thats a good way of doing it
                Last edited by KeonClark; Tue Jan 7th, 2020, 06:00 PM.
                It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post
                  George Hill is 8 years older than FVV
                  George Hill is still the better & more consistent player. And much, much cheaper. FVV is a product of usage & minutes, but he's wildly inconsistent, especially since Pascal got hurt.

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                  • golden wrote: View Post

                    George Hill is still the better & more consistent player. And much, much cheaper. FVV is a product of usage & minutes, but he's wildly inconsistent, especially since Pascal got hurt.
                    He’s cheaper because he’s 8 years older. His last contract was 3 years $57 mill in a lower cap environment.

                    I disagree that he’s better.

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                    • c-troop wrote: View Post

                      I disagree because our guys will be gassed if we are starting FVV and Lowry and Siakam, even when rotations shrink it won't be enough to maintain the fast play. Our best 3 man rotation is Davis, RHJ and Boucher. They are gonna need a facilitator IMO.

                      This team isn't built to win a championship right now. I could totally be wrong about the exact personnel needed to improve our roster but we need to do something or we are essentially treadmilling and waiting for a big fish in FA.
                      Is there some confusion as to whether this is exactly what we're doing now? Trying to stay competitive and hoping Masai can pull off another miracle plus replace Lowry, Gasol and Serge for 2022 to play with Giannis, Pascal and FVV ..... and OG

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                      • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                        Is there some confusion as to whether this is exactly what we're doing now? Trying to stay competitive and hoping Masai can pull off another miracle plus replace Lowry, Gasol and Serge for 2022 to play with Giannis, Pascal and FVV ..... and OG
                        There is no confusion, G_Deane, but rather a difference in opinion assessing our championship window and applying the proverbial adage of striking while the iron is hot.

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                        • Trade Pat McCaw for a roll of hockey tape I don't care.
                          "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                          • c-troop wrote: View Post

                            There is no confusion, G_Deane, but rather a difference in opinion assessing our championship window and applying the proverbial adage of striking while the iron is hot.
                            Is the iron hot though? What do you think we are getting for these players you want to trade?

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                            • Trade OG, start Brissett

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                              • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

                                Is the iron hot though? What do you think we are getting for these players you want to trade?
                                we are 4th in the east with a team comprised of mostly role players... all I'm saying is shuffle up the end of the bench and get some actual NBA players on the team so we can at least see what the ceiling of this squad is.

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