To trade or not to trade

[whateverx2019]

you guys gotta be logical ...yes the raps can make the playoffs ...but theh won't win it all ...theyll likely make it to the second round at most

I take the long term, pragmatic money based view ...sell your assets ..get something in return ...let these young and cheap guys get a full year (next season) to develop as much as possible ..see who's worthy to keep or not ...then in 2 season from now ...go all in (eg giannis ) ...from there...you'll likely have a relatively young team that has a legitimate chance of winning a championship every year for a very LONG time (5 years plus)

and...for those Kawhi lovers...yes...there may be a possibility he might return here although I suspect he'll try to stay in Cali or near there

[DanH]

The team that really needs a C is Boston. Would be interesting to see what we could get from them for Ibaka.

Not an easy salary match though. I'd love to think we could convince them to build a deal around Theis and Smart, but more likely we'd need to make it something like Ibaka and Powell for Hayward. Neither deal likely lands us much value in terms of draft assets along with those pieces, and I suspect even without that value Boston might not be interested (if they are smart anyway).

OKC is another team that finds itself in the playoffs right now. Maybe instead of them selling Gallo they decide to hunt for more scoring. They have a load of assets to trade. Had a hard time coming up with a nice deal for Gallo, but if they wanted to get rid of Schroder's deal (this year and next) we could swap them Ibaka for him and Roberson (who is expiring and is also probably out for the year). Maybe they like Schroder now though, and I don't, I'd want to make the deal only for a draft asset return, and they may not be interested in paying such a price.

[DanH]

you guys gotta be logical ...yes the raps can make the playoffs ...but theh won't win it all ...theyll likely make it to the second round at most

I take the long term, pragmatic money based view ...sell your assets ..get something in return ...let these young and cheap guys get a full year (next season) to develop as much as possible ..see who's worthy to keep or not ...then in 2 season from now ...go all in (eg giannis ) ...from there...you'll likely have a relatively young team that has a legitimate chance of winning a championship every year for a very LONG time (5 years plus)

and...for those Kawhi lovers...yes...there may be a possibility he might return here although I suspect he'll try to stay in Cali or near there

Good luck selling potential free agents if you've in recent memory sold off all your veterans while in the mix for the 2nd seed in the conference.

If they wanted to sell their vets, they'd have done so last summer when they all had championship shine on them and they could give the young guys a full camp and season in those bigger roles this year. It's not going to happen now. They should sell one of the C's (Ibaka). But that's it.

[planetmars]

you guys gotta be logical ...yes the raps can make the playoffs ...but theh won't win it all ...theyll likely make it to the second round at most

I take the long term, pragmatic money based view ...sell your assets ..get something in return ...let these young and cheap guys get a full year (next season) to develop as much as possible ..see who's worthy to keep or not ...then in 2 season from now ...go all in (eg giannis ) ...from there...you'll likely have a relatively young team that has a legitimate chance of winning a championship every year for a very LONG time (5 years plus)

and...for those Kawhi lovers...yes...there may be a possibility he might return here although I suspect he'll try to stay in Cali or near there

The problem is that most stars don't like going to bad teams. You sell off your vets and have a shitty team next year, nobody is coming to play with you.. especially in Canada.

Plus Masai doesn't like to lose intentionally. He wants to win. Any trade he makes will be an upgrade, not a downgrade.

[planetmars]

The team that really needs a C is Boston. Would be interesting to see what we could get from them for Ibaka.

Not an easy salary match though. I'd love to think we could convince them to build a deal around Theis and Smart, but more likely we'd need to make it something like Ibaka and Powell for Hayward. Neither deal likely lands us much value in terms of draft assets along with those pieces, and I suspect even without that value Boston might not be interested (if they are smart anyway).

Yeah, I don't think Masai trades with Boston. Both teams are essentially competing against each other.

Dallas may have interest in Serge though. They could use a C upgrade. Porzingis is not very reliable, at least not this season. The risk with Serge is that he's a UFA in the summer, and Dallas may not want to give up anyone good for a rental.

How about Powell (also a UFA) + THJR (PO for next year) for Serge and McCaw?

Dallas frees up cash next year in case THJR opts in. They get an upgrade at C, and we get rid of McCaw in the process? Mostly wishful thinking on my part.

[golden]

Crazy trade idea. Utah Jazz are red-hot since Conley got injured allowing Donovan Mitchell to dominate the ball. The chemistry between Mitchell and Conley just isn't there, so Conley might be expendable. So, here's the trade:

To Jazz: Ibaka, Powell & McCaw
To Raptors: Conley & Ed Davis

Jazz get athleticism & championship DNA players. Ibaka is a perfect complement to Gobert as a stretch 5 backup or stretch 4 in big lineup.

Raps can play Conley or VanVleet as the backup PG and would have the best PG rotation the league has ever seen (Nick Nurse permanent boner). Ed Davis provides solid rebounding, efficiency around the rim and a PnR partner for Lowry. Losing Ibaka would hurt though, not gonna lie. Jazz taking McCaw have to take McCaw - that's a non-negotiable.

Oh, and Conley already has instant chemistry with another guy on our roster.

It's a bold, crazy idea, which is exactly why I think Masai would do it. We tried to get Conley last year, btw, and his contract expires in 2021.

[DanH]

Yeah, I don't think Masai trades with Boston. Both teams are essentially competing against each other.

Dallas may have interest in Serge though. They could use a C upgrade. Porzingis is not very reliable, at least not this season. The risk with Serge is that he's a UFA in the summer, and Dallas may not want to give up anyone good for a rental.

How about Powell (also a UFA) + THJR (PO for next year) for Serge and McCaw?

Dallas frees up cash next year in case THJR opts in. They get an upgrade at C, and we get rid of McCaw in the process? Mostly wishful thinking on my part.

I think swaps like this are possible but the point of any deal would be to either get better or get draft assets, I don't think this deal does either. I like the McCaw-is-gone bit but from an objective standpoint I'm not sure I see the point. And that's an expensive player option next year for THJ. Dollars aren't exactly tight next summer but if we want to keep Marc on an overpay one-year we start to get up closer to the tax line depending on what FVV makes, and if we re-sign Boucher.

Now, if Dallas would give up GSW's 2nd rounder this year at least we've gained some value at least in theory. But I like Serge and as much as he doesn't help the team all that much when we are fully healthy I'd still want to clear a decent bar re: value when dealing him.

[DanH]

Crazy trade idea. Utah Jazz are red-hot since Conley got injured allowing Donovan Mitchell to dominate the ball. The chemistry between Mitchell and Conley just isn't there, so Conley might be expendable. So, here's the trade:

To Jazz: Ibaka, Powell & McCaw
To Raptors: Conley & Ed Davis

Jazz get athleticism & championship DNA players. Ibaka is a perfect complement to Gobert as a stretch 5 backup or stretch 4 in big lineup.

Raps can play Conley or VanVleet as the backup PG and would have the best PG rotation the league has ever seen (Nick Nurse permanent boner). Ed Davis provides solid rebounding, efficiency around the rim and a PnR partner for Lowry. Losing Ibaka would hurt though, not gonna lie. Jazz taking McCaw have to take McCaw - that's a non-negotiable.

Oh, and Conley already has instant chemistry with another guy on our roster.

It's a bold, crazy idea, which is exactly why I think Masai would do it. We tried to get Conley last year, btw, and his contract expires in 2021.

That's a fantastic suggestion. Love Ed Davis, and Conley as a bench guard would be ridiculous.

Makes next summer a tricky one for bringing back everyone, but if they are really good they could probably even convince themselves to dip into the tax again, knowing they will be dipping under the cap the following summer.

[DanH]

That's a fantastic suggestion. Love Ed Davis, and Conley as a bench guard would be ridiculous.

Makes next summer a tricky one for bringing back everyone, but if they are really good they could probably even convince themselves to dip into the tax again, knowing they will be dipping under the cap the following summer.

Checking, it leaves them 25M under the tax line without having re-signed FVV or Gasol. So maybe they'd re-sign FVV and let Gasol walk then, if they can re-sign Boucher cheap, and rely on Davis and Boucher next year. Or they spend into the tax, keep Gasol and FVV, and wreck some teams.

[golden]

Checking, it leaves them 25M under the tax line without having re-signed FVV or Gasol. So maybe they'd re-sign FVV and let Gasol walk then, if they can re-sign Boucher cheap, and rely on Davis and Boucher next year. Or they spend into the tax, keep Gasol and FVV, and wreck some teams.

Well, I mean we'd be going for the 3-peat at that point, so spending the tax would obviously be worth it.

The only downside to this trade would be the obvious temptation for Nurse to start all 3 of Lowry, Conley and FVV. That's Nurse's ball-handling vision fully realized, but a hella short-ass lineup.

I can tell you for a fact that FVV's real height is much closer to 5-10, despite the recently updated 6-0 that was reported. I would bet money that all 3 of Lowry, Conley and FVV are at least a shade under 6-0 in bare feet.

[DanH]

Well, I mean we'd be going for the 3-peat at that point, so spending the tax would obviously be worth it.

The only downside to this trade would be the obvious temptation for Nurse to start all 3 of Lowry, Conley and FVV. That's Nurse's ball-handling vision fully realized, but a hella short-ass lineup.

I can tell you for a fact that FVV's real height is much closer to 5-10, despite the recently updated 6-0 that was reported. I would bet money that all 3 of Lowry, Conley and FVV are at least a shade under 6-0 in bare feet.

Hopefully Nurse's guard appetite would be satisfied being able to play 48 minutes straight with only Lowry, Conley, FVV and Terry manning the guard spots. But with FVV and Lowry they may actually do alright with all three PGs out there anyway. Wouldn't mind it as a closing lineup. With Gasol and Pascal out there the amount of playmaking and shooting would be dizzying.

[planetmars]

Is Conley any good or is completely washed up now? I mean the Jazz have struggled when Conley was playing. I bet they would love to get rid him of him. I mean we could probably give them SJ and McCaw and still get a pick back. I mean he has a TS% of 49.1 and a -0.92 PIPM.

He was fine in Memphis, but he's been pretty bad for Utah. Maybe playing with Gasol would help? Or he could just continue to suck. Sort or risky IMO.

[DanH]

Is Conley any good or is completely washed up now? I mean the Jazz have struggled when Conley was playing. I bet they would love to get rid him of him. I mean we could probably give them SJ and McCaw and still get a pick back. I mean he has a TS% of 49.1 and a -0.92 PIPM.

He was fine in Memphis, but he's been pretty bad for Utah. Maybe playing with Gasol would help? Or he could just continue to suck. Sort or risky IMO.

It is indeed risky. But Conley's poor PIPM is entirely on offence, he's been a break even defender. And the offence is something I think would look a lot better here - he can still shoot the three so at least he can space the floor if nothing else. Most of his offensive struggles seem to be him not hitting his midrange shots anymore, and not being able to finish at the rim, but he won't be asked to score in the midrange here, and we should be able to generate cleaner looks at the rim for him here with our floor spacing bigs.

But those struggles are also the only reason he'd be available for a package like that without us sending our picks (which we should be avoiding if possible in general). We're not trading a lot of value here, so there are going to be question marks with anyone we manage to get.

[golden]

Is Conley any good or is completely washed up now? I mean the Jazz have struggled when Conley was playing. I bet they would love to get rid him of him. I mean we could probably give them SJ and McCaw and still get a pick back. I mean he has a TS% of 49.1 and a -0.92 PIPM.

He was fine in Memphis, but he's been pretty bad for Utah. Maybe playing with Gasol would help? Or he could just continue to suck. Sort or risky IMO.

Nah, I don't think he's washed. It's mostly fit, IMO. Utah clearly has only one style of play that is effective for them, and that's when Donovan Mitchell has the ball in his hands a lot. I've always believed that one of the most underrated challenging things to do is to integrate a high-usage starter into your team, and even more so, an all-star calibre point guard. The key would be to get Conley to accept a bench role, where he could dominate the ball against backup units.

Sure, if you can get Conley for SJ & McCaw that would be great, but you still need to add Ibaka to make salaries match. Conley was the Jazz big off-season signing, so I doubt they're going to give him away for trash, if only to save face.

I really don't see the risk, btw. Ibaka and Powell grade out typically as negatives in impact stats. Terence Davis is pretty much a plug & play replacement for Norm. Ed Davis has been traditionally an advanced stats stud, doesn't need touches, and provides something we lack... rebounding and interior toughness.

Conley/Davis could practically prop up a bench unit by themselves, kind of like a more 2-way version of the Clippers' Lou/Harrell. The only real loss is Serge's bench shooting which helps spacing. But Conley/Davis vs. McCaw/Serge is a clear upgrade for the bench.

[c-troop]

That's a fantastic suggestion. Love Ed Davis, and Conley as a bench guard would be ridiculous.

Makes next summer a tricky one for bringing back everyone, but if they are really good they could probably even convince themselves to dip into the tax again, knowing they will be dipping under the cap the following summer.

OK. This is the exact formula I suggested by bringing in Teague and Dieng and you are using the exact trade fodder I suggested as well. I'm salty. Also, I don't think Utah would do it either. The funniest part is Teague is a former all-star and Conley has never been one. Conley is struggling on an excellent team while Teague is in NBA purgatory. I got zero response and just negativity and now you guys are clamouring over, Mike. Conley. It's not right, man. And the last thing I'm gunna say is Dieng is much better than Ed Davis. Ed can't even spread the floor or shoot 3's. It's not even funny how much better Dieng would be. https://www.basketball-reference.com...01&idx=players