To trade or not to trade

[bertarapsfan]

A microwave bench scorer, finally getting regular minutes, who is relatively young and on a very cheap contract is a guy you want to trade for an often washed up looking Iggy rental?

What’s wrong with you people?

I have a memory longer then 2 months. Norman has been good 4 times. 3 for a relatively short period where he looked amazing. His 1st season where he exceeded expectations. The first Bucks playoff series. The 2nd bucks playoff series and the last 4 weeks. When Norman plays well he looks like a starting 2-gurad or elite 6-man. But for 75% of his contract we have been wondering how we can get off of it.
I'm not saying he might not have turned the corner but i'm scared we might miss out on his all-time high value.

[bertarapsfan]

Powell is better then iggy. It's probably a bad trade at the point in time for us, But 3 months ago if you wold have told most of us we could flip him for Iggy we would have jumped at it. And iggy is far from washed he was GSW best series for alot of the finals just 6 months ago.

[DanH]

If you trade Powell, best be either for a real draft assets, or for a significant upgrade (either a top notch role player upgrade or as part of a package for a high level starter). Or maybe for a moderate role play upgrade only if it freed up a second trade for assets. Say a Powell trade for a quality backup C and backup wing, then an Ibaka deal for a pick. As an example.

Can't be making a trade just to make it.

[golden]

I have a memory longer then 2 months. Norman has been good 4 times. 3 for a relatively short period where he looked amazing. His 1st season where he exceeded expectations. The first Bucks playoff series. The 2nd bucks playoff series and the last 4 weeks. When Norman plays well he looks like a starting 2-gurad or elite 6-man. But for 75% of his contract we have been wondering how we can get off of it.
I'm not saying he might not have turned the corner but i'm scared we might miss out on his all-time high value.

I'm not disagreeing with selling high, but I don't agree with selling while high. Iggy is not going to make the difference between getting back to the Finals or not. That should be the goal if we're going all in on win-now moves.

Powell, on the other hand, could be part of future package if a real difference maker comes on the market next year or in the off-season. Or, you could keep Powell (on a dirt cheap contract) and that allows you to grudgingly include Terence Davis in a future package for a star.

The best chance to get Iggy on the Raps was when we drafted Hoffa. Even thinking about a Powell for Iggy trade feel so Colangelesque.

[Rudy Bargnani]

I'm not disagreeing with selling high, but I don't agree with selling while high. Iggy is not going to make the difference between getting back to the Finals or not. That should be the goal if we're going all in on win-now moves.

Powell, on the other hand, could be part of future package if a real difference maker comes on the market next year or in the off-season. Or, you could keep Powell (on a dirt cheap contract) and that allows you to grudgingly include Terence Davis in a future package for a star.

The best chance to get Iggy on the Raps was when we drafted Hoffa. Even thinking about a Powell for Iggy trade feel so Colangelesque.

Ugh did you have to remind me about drafting Hoffa over Iggy lol. He has been out of the NBA for like 13 years while Iggy is still going. Incredible

[bertarapsfan]

I'm not disagreeing with selling high, but I don't agree with selling while high. Iggy is not going to make the difference between getting back to the Finals or not. That should be the goal if we're going all in on win-now moves.

Powell, on the other hand, could be part of future package if a real difference maker comes on the market next year or in the off-season. Or, you could keep Powell (on a dirt cheap contract) and that allows you to grudgingly include Terence Davis in a future package for a star.

The best chance to get Iggy on the Raps was when we drafted Hoffa. Even thinking about a Powell for Iggy trade feel so Colangelesque.

I was using Iggy to point out that Powell has played himself into being an overpay for iggy. Where pre-season it looked like we didnt have the trade chips to outbid some of the other contenders who would be gunning for him.

[MixxAOR]

Serge+Powell+FVV for Jrue Holiday and JJ Redick

[chris]

Serge+Powell+FVV for Jrue Holiday and JJ Redick

on a basketball level i don't like this trade and as a fan of this team i really fucking hate this trade.

is anyone else enjoying this season every bit as much as (and possibly more than) the last? why are so many preoccupied with tearing a title-defending team on pace to win 55+ games down to the skids when they are just getting healthy?

[dylan123]

Yeah, rather keep Powell unless he's a chip to get us a star scoring SG/SF. The bench scoring is really handy and I think what our list had going for it last year in the playoffs was the number of guys who would step up and have their night followed by someone completely different. Stops us relying on an individual to keep delivering (which Kawhi did) and makes it harder for teams to stop us when it can be anyone.

That said, feels like we are a bit deep with some of the guys worthy of minutes not getting anything but can't really bank on having no injuries.

[Puffer]

Yeah, rather keep Powell unless he's a chip to get us a star scoring SG/SF. The bench scoring is really handy and I think what our list had going for it last year in the playoffs was the number of guys who would step up and have their night followed by someone completely different. Stops us relying on an individual to keep delivering (which Kawhi did) and makes it harder for teams to stop us when it can be anyone.

That said, feels like we are a bit deep with some of the guys worthy of minutes not getting anything but can't really bank on having no injuries.

As you say, Raps are deep. Aside from dealing with injuries. this gives Nurse incredible flexibility to adjust lineups based on matchups or even in-game situations like full court press (maybe ensure ball handlers are handling the ball) or dealing with a Zone (ensure shooters are on the floor). He certainly seems to be exercising all of his players in different combinations. I am sure every lineup is getting put into a tablet with the results against different types of opposition listed. Probably one assistant has no other duties than monitoring the proprietary "Nurse Line-up Wheel of Fortune."

[grindhouse]

I think the positions we are strong at are center, power forward, and point guard. Boucher is developing but I wouldn’t trade gasol or serge anytime soon they still have a few years in them. Pascal and Boucher. I think Boucher is our back up power forward or back up center if we go with a serge/gasol starting line up. Those positions work so well I wouldn’t dare touch them.

gaurd is solid too and right now Fred is the most valuable thing we have. I am open to trading Fred or Lowry or any other guard as long as we keep 1 of those 2.

SF and SG trade whoever you want except Matt Thomas he is not getting the respect he deserve. One of you numbers guys plz pull up a plus minus on him he is so good .

[DanH]

I think the positions we are strong at are center, power forward, and point guard. Boucher is developing but I wouldn’t trade gasol or serge anytime soon they still have a few years in them. Pascal and Boucher. I think Boucher is our back up power forward or back up center if we go with a serge/gasol starting line up. Those positions work so well I wouldn’t dare touch them.

gaurd is solid too and right now Fred is the most valuable thing we have. I am open to trading Fred or Lowry or any other guard as long as we keep 1 of those 2.

SF and SG trade whoever you want except Matt Thomas he is not getting the respect he deserve. One of you numbers guys plz pull up a plus minus on him he is so good .

LOL trade OG or Terry but don't touch Matt Thomas. Come on man.

For the record, since you asked:

Matt Thomas: -0.5 net rating on court, +6.7 net rating off court, -0.85 PIPM (adjusted plus-minus)
Terry Davis: +13.8 net rating on court, +1.4 net rating off court, +1.33 PIPM
OG Anunoby: +6.4 net rating on court, +4.4 net rating off court, +1.39 PIPM

For kicks, while we're at it:

Fred VanVleet: +3.6 net rating on court, +7.9 net rating off court, +1.30 PIPM
Kyle Lowry: +3.5 net rating on court, +8.7 net rating off court, +0.89 PIPM
Pascal Siakam: +8.9 net rating on court, +1.6 net rating off court, +2.42 PIPM
Marc Gasol: +11.3 net rating on court, +1.7 net rating off court, +2.56 PIPM
Serge Ibaka: +0.9 net rating on court, +9.6 net rating off court, -2.06 PIPM
Norm Powell: +5.1 net rating on court, +6.9 net rating off court, -0.72 PIPM
Rondae Hollis-Jefferson: +5.1 net rating on court, +5.9 net rating off court, -0.49 PIPM
Chris Boucher: +5.1 net rating on court, +5.6 net rating off court, +1.15 PIPM

And drum roll please...

Patrick McCaw: -1.3 net rating on court, +8.8 net rating off court, -2.90 PIPM

[DanH]

OK, here's a trade proposal that I've gotten flamed for on twitter and I figure what's more flaming:

Serge Ibaka, Norman Powell, Patrick McCaw, Stanley Johnson to Denver for Paul Millsap, Mason Plumlee, Torrey Craig.

41.0M going to Denver, 46.4M coming to Toronto. Denver takes on the extra body and some salary next season. Toronto takes on money this season.

Denver needs more shooting. Their 35% three point success rate is putting a cap on their offensive potential. Millsap shoots well but on only 2 attempts a game, and is only playing 24 MPG for them. He's not doing much playmaking for them either.

Powell can come in as a shooting wing who is putting up 42% 3 point shooting on over 5 attempts a game, he can defend a little, and doesn't need the ball in his hands to be useful. Serge shoots the 3 a little worse than Millsap, but on higher volume.

They just lost Plumlee to an injury for a month (in a West race that could close on them fast) and he's not very good anyway. Serge could play Millsap's PF minutes plus a good chunk of the backup C minutes for them, and those C minutes would represent a huge shooting improvement.

McCaw, Johnson and Craig are basically warm bodies on the wing but mostly included to make the salary work such that Denver sheds salary but the Raptors don't go into the tax. Toronto also clears a roster spot for when they want to give a 905er an NBA deal for the playoffs.

Ultimately the pitch is for Denver to improve their shooting and increase their flexibility below the tax this year, while covering off their frontcourt injury and the minutes of the player they are sending out.

Raptors get a guy who can play PF or C in small looks, who has a huge positive impact, who fits their team structure, who is a very good shooter and ball mover in low volume, and with an expiring deal maybe is not valued quite as he should be by Denver.

[JawsGT]

Ibaka and powell for millsap...damn you really want that cap space.

[DanH]

Ibaka and powell for millsap...damn you really want that cap space.

I actually just think Millsap, even now, is 10x the player those two are, and moving those two also frees up minutes for more impactful guys already on the roster.