Game #24: Los Angeles Clippers 112 - Toronto Raptors 92

[Rudy Bargnani]

I'm not going to look at it up, but I think I read the first 10 games the Raptors shot 40% from 3....since then it is about 27% from 3.

That explains a lot of the problems. It's a make or miss league Doug. I also think Pascal looks burnt out.

[slaw]

Yeah, and it pains me to say that Serge might be done because I have made respect for him. He didn't get enough praise for being the only guy other than Kawhi to show up in game 7 of the Sixers series. If not for Serge, we don't get the FVV heroics and Lowry's legacy is forever etched as a playoff choker. Instead, we're now talking about $25-30M/yr for Fred and statues for Lowry. It was that close, folks.

Championships are always that close. That's what makes one so special when it does happen.

[golden]

Honestly, the only thing that I remember about Game 7 other than "The Shot" was Kawhi Leonard taking 39 shots. He took 39 shots because all the players on the team including Lowry kept passing up open shots. It was embarassing to watch how scared they looked.

Serge showed up big-time in that game: 6 for 10. 17pts. 3 big cajones 3-pters. And most importantly, his +22 was the highest of any player on either team by a wide margin. Ibaka was a beast in Game 7, but 'The Shot' overshadows everything else. And then the winning the championship erases his contribution completely for most people, unfortunately.


https://www.basketball-reference.com...905120TOR.html

[slaw]

I like how we won a chip, are on pace for 54 wins with several key young pieces crushing it, a COY candidate behind the bench, and at the first sign of adversity it's time to tank.

Like come on now. Even if we were to trade the vets for young prospects we would still be a formidable team. If Pascal and Freddy and OG and Norm had all completely shit the bed this season then you could make that argument, but they are killing it.

Yep, context is important. They've got a couple key guys struggling (Lowry and Ibaka), they aren't shooting the three-ball particularly well (22% last night!!!!!), the defense has been uneven since Lowry and Ibaka have returned and the rebounding struggles continue. But it's not like any of those are insurmountable problems that necessitate blowing up the roster.

And just looking around the East, the Bucks, Heat, Sixers and Celtics are all winning over 70% of their games. Last season, 2 teams in the East finished with winning percentages over 70%. All of those teams are not going to sustain that pace for another 4 1/2 months.

[MixxAOR]

At this point Masai, Tolzman & scouting staff don't even need to tank for top 5 picks. Without even using picks, we got 2 of the best rookies in the league this year (TD & Matt Thomas). And Dewan looks like an NBA rotation player as well - he could probably replace Serge in a year or 2.

I think Masai wanted to give the veterans a chance to prove they can defend the title, before the trade deadline. It's up to them to turn things around and show they're a legit contender.

Ja Morant is better, kids from Miami are better. Not that I'm complaining. TD looks good.

[golden]

Championships are always that close. That's what makes one so special when it does happen.

In the NBA... not really. There have been some dominant teams, even as recently as KD Warriors.

[MixxAOR]

At this point Masai, Tolzman & scouting staff don't even need to tank for top 5 picks. Without even using picks, we got 2 of the best rookies in the league this year (TD & Matt Thomas). And Dewan looks like an NBA rotation player as well - he could probably replace Serge in a year or 2.

I think Masai wanted to give the veterans a chance to prove they can defend the title, before the trade deadline. It's up to them to turn things around and show they're a legit contender.

Who needs to get injured this time?

[KeonClark]

At least these losses are happening now and not in February/March. But the way were losing has become so deflating. Our offense grinds to a halt. They have guys that just keep bricking shots. OG was a .500% 3pt shooter and went 1-7. Lowry was 0-7. Pascal was 1-4. I mean shooting is an essential key aspect of Nurse's offence. Norm has some how become our most consistent shooter right now. TD can shoot but he's so low on Nurse's totem pole that it doesn't matter.

There's a bit of regression to the mean at work here. OG was not a .500 3 pt shooter. He was a player on a hot streak, making .500 at the time.

Kyle is now shooting the same % as he did last year, which is alarming because its not very good. Last year he was .347 and he's now .346. Not exactly numbers that should get you in that 3 pt competition on all star weekend.

And people might have been hoping Siakam turned into a 40% 3 pt shooter overnight, but it looks like thats not the case.

The good news? Our % still ranks 4th in the NBA, its just clearly in a lull.

[LJ2]

What would you guys think about Masai taking the same approach as the Spurs and Dallas did where they stayed competitive and then moved up the draft to grab Kawhi and in Dallas' case Luka?

I mean fans would have to put up with stretches like this where it's evident that this team isn't a contender, but perhaps focusing on the draft instead of the one year hired mercenaries we could eventually be perennial contenders.

[MixxAOR]

What would you guys think about Masai taking the same approach as the Spurs and Dallas did where they stayed competitive and then moved up the draft to grab Kawhi and in Dallas' case Luka?

I mean fans would have to put up with stretches like this where it's evident that this team isn't a contender, but perhaps focusing on the draft instead of the one year hired mercenaries we could eventually be perennial contenders.

Isn't that his approach? He didn't move up in draft because I think trade just wasn't there. But Masai teams always were competitive and we invest heavily in young guys as it is. If we take a major stepback I think it will give him more freedom to operate.

But Kawhi and Luka are rare talents. So it's mostly about luck.

[slaw]

In the NBA... not really. There have been some dominant teams, even as recently as KD Warriors.

If Chris Paull doesn't get hurt in the Rockets series two seasons ago, the Warriors never even get to the Finals. In 2016, OKC blew a 3-1 lead including blowing a double-digit lead at home in game 6. The Heat were a rebound and bad Popovich substitution away from losing to the Spurs twice in the Finals. With very few exceptions, you can go back through any champion's season and point to any number of things that, had they gone the other way, would have meant no title.

I'm not sure why some Raptor fans feel the need to diminish or minimize the Raptors title with these kinds of specious arguments.

[slaw]

What would you guys think about Masai taking the same approach as the Spurs and Dallas did where they stayed competitive and then moved up the draft to grab Kawhi and in Dallas' case Luka?

I mean fans would have to put up with stretches like this where it's evident that this team isn't a contender, but perhaps focusing on the draft instead of the one year hired mercenaries we could eventually be perennial contenders.

Isn't that what the Raps are doing? Feels pretty good to me.

What's the alternative that prevents any stretch where the team isn't in contention? Are there any examples?

[golden]

What would you guys think about Masai taking the same approach as the Spurs and Dallas did where they stayed competitive and then moved up the draft to grab Kawhi and in Dallas' case Luka?

I mean fans would have to put up with stretches like this where it's evident that this team isn't a contender, but perhaps focusing on the draft instead of the one year hired mercenaries we could eventually be perennial contenders.

I think that's exactly what's going to happen. The decisions will be made close to the trade deadline. Out of respect for champions, Masai is going to give this group every opportunity to prove they're worthy of another playoff run. But if we continue like this, I'm pretty sure Masai is going to trade Lowry (to Minnesota or Dallas) and pay Fred whatever his market value is, so....... we'll be looking at the FVV-Siakam Era next year. Not sure how I feel about that overall, but from a team culture standpoint, it's about as good as it gets.

[golden]

If Chris Paull doesn't get hurt in the Rockets series two seasons ago, the Warriors never even get to the Finals. In 2016, OKC blew a 3-1 lead including blowing a double-digit lead at home in game 6. The Heat were a rebound and bad Popovich substitution away from losing to the Spurs twice in the Finals. With very few exceptions, you can go back through any champion's season and point to any number of things that, had they gone the other way, would have meant no title.

I'm not sure why some Raptor fans feel the need to diminish or minimize the Raptors title with these kinds of specious arguments.

Praising Serge's Game 7 is diminishing the title run? You're barking up the wrong tree here, slaw. As usual. lol.

And the Warriors still would have beat the Rockets, even with CP3. They only played as hard as they needed to when challenged. We saw that with the Durant-less Warriors giving the Raptors all they could handle until Klay blew his leg out a second time.

Championship DNA and all that..... I think that's what you were saying we have this year.... right? It wasn't mostly Kawhi... right?

[DanH]

I think that's exactly what's going to happen. The decisions will be made close to the trade deadline. Out of respect for champions, Masai is going to give this group every opportunity to prove they're worthy of another playoff run. But if we continue like this, I'm pretty sure Masai is going to trade Lowry (to Minnesota or Dallas) and pay Fred whatever his market value is, so....... we'll be looking at the FVV-Siakam Era next year. Not sure how I feel about that overall, but from a team culture standpoint, it's about as good as it gets.

The obvious first decision point at the deadline is whether they can get Gasol to take a one year extension. And then trade Serge. If they can't, it becomes a more interesting decision.

Minny could really use Lowry. But yes, the team would need to continue like this, IMO, for that to be a serious consideration (unless teams are coming calling with significant draft asset offers for Lowry, which I doubt), and there's basically no way that happens. They'll be projecting above 50 wins and they'll need to make an active decision to get worse if they want to trade Lowry.