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Are the Raptors lacking a true direction?

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  • #46
    ebrian wrote: View Post
    That's ridiculous. Amir is already making $7M this year. And by all accounts I don't think you'll find a single person here who doesn't agree that he is underpaid for what he does. I was being conservative when I wrote that he'd be earning $10M, 4 years from now.
    If you wanna pay a 31 year old PF with bad ankles 10M a year you go ahead. It's a good thing you're not a GM.....

    Guarantee Amir doesn't get a pay raise, he resigns for what he's making now IF that

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    • #47
      Lack of direction.. I'm not sure. I think MU plan is still focused on growing and developing the players. I am not sure what will happen this season, but it's looking like the east may be horrible again (which is good in terms of making it playoffs again for our guys).

      Comment


      • #48
        Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
        If you wanna pay a 31 year old PF with bad ankles 10M a year you go ahead. It's a good thing you're not a GM.....

        Guarantee Amir doesn't get a pay raise, he resigns for what he's making now IF that
        Show me a single starting NBA power forward who didn't get a pay raise at age 27.
        your pal,
        ebrian

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        • #49
          Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
          If you wanna pay a 31 year old PF with bad ankles 10M a year you go ahead. It's a good thing you're not a GM.....

          Guarantee Amir doesn't get a pay raise, he resigns for what he's making now IF that
          He may get a pay raise - but the team that signs him to that may regret it if they sign him to a 3+ year deal. He really is breaking down.
          twitter.com/dhackett1565

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          • #50
            DanH wrote: View Post
            Well if the question seems begged, then you misunderstand the point of the draft.

            You want a role player? Sign one. They are a dime a dozen.

            You want a player that can contribute right away? Sign one. The draft won't address this, not outside the lotto.

            30% of RRepublicans are wrong, but that aside, an off the board pick versus an on the board pick would have little to no consequence for this season, and possibly even for next season. Non-lotto draft picks simply will not move the needle in their first year or two. Even if they contribute, it will be as a backup, as the 10th or 11th most important piece on the team.

            Hunting Lowry's replacement mid-courtship is called preparing for an unrestricted free agent to potentially leave the team. It's called common sense. It would be moronic not to consider that scenario and prepare for it, no matter the direction of the team.

            I see nothing in your post that implies any sort of questionable direction.
            I personally side with the majority on this. The Raptors are on track in my mind. I pointed out that where you see certainty the minority see murky judgement at best, and at worst hackneyed post betting. A small foible with your statement of misunderstanding the draft. OP mentioned direction. The drafts planning and execution, of whatever selection, is a major part of the direction and as such its results beg the question of the organizations direction.

            Since the flip side of this coin is just as interesting, I'll have a go.

            Either you are hedging on the possibility that Lowry leaves or you aren't. If hunting his replacement is common sense. Drafting depth is just as common. Taking the fiasco that is Napier over "huge gamble" is the safe play. Heading into free agency with 0 Point Guards under contract is recipe for disaster.

            Contrary to that; if you knew you would have one or both of your PGs back why hunt their replacements at all? Why expend the resources. Focus on your concerns at another position. MU pointed out shot blocking and wing depth. The prospects you just described as not helping in the short term(year 1 Bruno, year 2 Bebe) aren't sufficient. In addition to the prospects adding to the cap MU brought in another player(Lou Williams) that can't address your stated deficiencies.

            Asset accumulation is great, but to what end? What is the ultimate goal? How far out is it? What's the lineup going to look like in the mean time.

            Surely if everything is on track these question are easily answered.
            Last edited by Raptor Jesus; Fri Jul 4, 2014, 11:38 AM.

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            • #51
              Raptor Jesus wrote: View Post
              I personally side with the majority on this. The Raptors are on track in my mind. I pointed out that where you see certainty the minority see murky judgement at best, and at worst hackneyed post betting. A small foible with your statement of misunderstanding the draft. OP mentioned direction the drafts planning and execution, of whatever selection, is a major part of the direction and as such its results beg the question of the organizations direction.

              Since the flip side of this coin is just as interesting, I'll have a go.

              Either you are hedging on the possibility that Lowry leaves or you aren't. If hunting his replacement is common sense. Drafting depth is just as common. Taking the fiasco that is Napier over "huge gamble" is the safe play. Heading into free agency with 0 Point Guards under contract is recipe for disaster.

              Contrary to that; if you knew you would have one or both of your PGs back why hunt their replacements at all? Why expend the resources. Focus on your concerns at another position. MU pointed out shot blocking and wing depth. The prospects you just described as not helping in the short term(year 1 Bruno, year 2 Bebe) aren't sufficient. In addition to the prospects adding to the cap MU brought in another player(Lou Williams) that can't address your stated deficiencies.

              Asset accumulation is great, but to what end? What is the ultimate goal? How far out is it? What's the lineup going to look like in the mean time.

              Surely if everything is on track these question are easily answered.
              To what end?
              To develop your own role players, starters, or stars OR to use assets in a trade for a star.

              What is the ultimate goal?
              To win championships or at the very least be a real contender for them.

              How far out is it?
              This entire team minus Lowry is set up to grow together for another 5-6 years if Masai chooses.

              What the lineup going to look like in the mean time?
              A combination of pieces acquired in the process of cleansing Colangelo's biggest mistakes (Hayes, Novak, Fields), winning now (DD, Amir, Lowry, Williams, Vasquez*, Patterson*), and planning for the future (Ross**, JV**, Bruno, Bebe).

              *Assumption they are brought back.
              **Breakout years from Ross and JV really changes dynamic of this team in the here and now.

              Comment


              • #52
                Yup, the ascension of Ross or JV or even BOTH to all-star level would push this team well above 50 wins imo, and it's not outside the realm of possibility. Lots of people here think Ross has more potential than DeRozan (who's already an all-star), and we know JV has the potential to do big things in this league.

                People just need to calm down and be patient imo. You can't build an instant championship team unless you're a mega-market like the Lakers (where they essentially acquired Kobe and Shaq for nothing in one year in '96... and even then it was FOUR years before they won it all).

                Comment


                • #53
                  mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                  To what end?
                  To develop your own role players, starters, or stars OR to use assets in a trade for a star.

                  What is the ultimate goal?
                  To win championships or at the very least be a real contender for them.

                  How far out is it?
                  This entire team minus Lowry is set up to grow together for another 5-6 years if Masai chooses.

                  What the lineup going to look like in the mean time?
                  A combination of pieces acquired in the process of cleansing Colangelo's biggest mistakes (Hayes, Novak, Fields), winning now (DD, Amir, Lowry, Williams, Vasquez*, Patterson*), and planning for the future (Ross**, JV**, Bruno, Bebe).

                  *Assumption they are brought back.
                  **Breakout years from Ross and JV really changes dynamic of this team in the here and now.
                  And sure enough they were. Nicely put.

                  Guess the minority need a better spokesperson, I did a terrible job.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I can see where OP's coming from. However, you can't expect the Raps to draft someone at 20 who can turn us from a contender in the playoffs to a contender for the title (unless we get real lucky). We're still missing one core piece. Whether that be our current guys developing into one, or us signing a FA. It's a risky move, but Bruno was signed because UM saw that he has the most upside. Sure we could have signed more established talent from usa college hoops, but their ceiling is lower and they likely won't push us over that hump.

                    If bruno pans out to be what UM hoped he would become, our core would still be within their prime. JV and Ross could still use a couple of years under their belt and DD technically has yet to reach his prime. Lowry might be a bit older by then (assuming our current team sticks around), but he'll still be the leader and the 'heart' of the team. At that point, you'd have to expect ross and JV to have developed far enough so that Lowry isn't asked to carry the offensive load every night. And with a couple more key acquisitions, only then are we really a contender.

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                    • #55
                      DanH wrote: View Post
                      He may get a pay raise - but the team that signs him to that may regret it if they sign him to a 3+ year deal. He really is breaking down.
                      And the raps aren't that team. He's signing for 7M or less.

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                      • #56
                        Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
                        And the raps aren't that team. He's signing for 7M or less.
                        I agree. I love, love, love Amir Johnson, but I wouldn't want to give him a 4 yr 10mil/per deal for his next deal. He'll be overpaid by the end of it.

                        Especially if the Raps can keep Pat Pat. In a couple seasons you'd like JV and PatPat to be your starting bigs, and you don't need a wearing down bench big making $10mil/year.
                        "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                        • #57
                          DanH wrote: View Post
                          Over the course of last year to summer 2015, the cap is going from 58.7M to 63.2M to 66.5M, based on projections. Last year's projections has this year's cap at 61M instead of 63.2M. So we may outpace those numbers. But even taking them as is, projecting that forward to 4 years from now suggests a cap of 76.4M. Which leaves another 17M to add before hitting the tax. Hopefully in the form of a max free agent we sign next summer.
                          No doubt we're all hoping for the same thing. But these guys are arguing that Ross, JV, Johnson, Caboclo, DeRozan, Noguira, Patterson, Lowry, Vasquez and 3 future first round picks will all still be on our payroll in 4 years. That's simply not possible, especially if we're signing Kevin Durant next summer
                          your pal,
                          ebrian

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                          • #58
                            S.R. wrote: View Post
                            I agree. I love, love, love Amir Johnson, but I wouldn't want to give him a 4 yr 10mil/per deal for his next deal. He'll be overpaid by the end of it.

                            Especially if the Raps can keep Pat Pat. In a couple seasons you'd like JV and PatPat to be your starting bigs, and you don't need a wearing down bench big making $10mil/year.
                            Plus Amir loves the raps. So as long. As there's improvement on the team and Masai proves he's spending wisely, Amir will resign for a discount

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                            • #59
                              ebrian wrote: View Post
                              No doubt we're all hoping for the same thing. But these guys are arguing that Ross, JV, Johnson, Caboclo, DeRozan, Noguira, Patterson, Lowry, Vasquez and 3 future first round picks will all still be on our payroll in 4 years. That's simply not possible, especially if we're signing Kevin Durant next summer
                              Durant's not a free agent next summer.

                              Lowry's signed for the next four years.
                              No chance we don't resign Ross and JV.
                              Bebe and Bruno's rookie deals have them for the next four years.
                              Amir's a rap for life.
                              Patman and Gravy are iffy depending on if they resign now.

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                              • #60
                                Doesn't matter when. We can't get him if we kept everyone.
                                your pal,
                                ebrian

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