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Raptors Salary Cap Situation (and planning for the future)

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  • Chefff
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Of course, it would have to make sense to bring him back at that price. So he'd have to be able to play next to JV.
    Well, if JV plays 32mpg, and Biyombo plays 24mpg, in theory they only need to share the floor for 8mpg. That leaves 40mpg for Patterson, Bebe, & Carroll (small ball PF) at the remaining big spot. If for those 8mpg we have three players who can provide spacing (eg. Lowry, Powell, Carroll, assuming Ross is gone), then that works pretty well, no?

    Is that reasonable, or am I trying way too much roster gymnastics to squeeze an extremely likeable but ultimately poor fit (biyombo) onto our roster? Are there simpler solutions (eg finding the "next Biyombo)?

    Also, what do you think is a reasonable expected return for Ross if we try to salary dump him to a non-cap team with no returning salary? A low 1st round pick? Two 2nd rounders? Or will we need to sweeten the pot since we'll be lacking leverage?

    Edit: Also, many argue that $13-17mil is too much to pay for a backup C, but let's not forget that injuries happen. Biz was our starting C for a substantial part of this season. Sure it's a luxury, but also a damn good insurance policy.
    Last edited by Chefff; Wed Jun 1, 2016, 02:30 AM.

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  • DanH
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    how does the biyombo situation work?

    he declines his year and becomes an UFA, highest bidder. but, hypothetically for understanding purposes, he picks up his option and we get small bird rights and he is a UFA next year. we still have a limit on how much we can pay him? why if he is an UFA?
    Rights let you go over the cap. We can pay him whatever we want this summer or next if we have the cap space. Right now we don't.

    So assuming you don't have the cap space... Need rights or an exception. We currently have Biyombo's non-Bird rights. Meaning we can sign him to a new deal over the cap. But his salary has to be almost identical to this year's salary. If he opts in (or we sign him to a one year deal with his rights) and he becomes a free agent next summer, we would have his Early Bird Rights. Then we can offer a 75% raise (or the average salary). So instead of 3M like right now, we could offer 6-8M.

    The next step up the logic ladder suggests that this summer we could sign him to an exception instead of using his rights (we have the 6M MLE at our disposal). If he signs a one year deal, then becomes a free agent next summer, we again have his early Bird Rights. At that point the 75% raise on the 6M he earns is about 10.5M. Decent, but nowhere near the rumoured price this summer.

    One thing that could happen, if Biyombo is open to a little risk and really wants to come back, is we trade Ross to make about 13M in cap room, then sign Biyombo to a two year deal where the second year is a player option. He gets 26M guaranteed, and is able to opt out and re-sign for more money the following summer (his early Bird rights would then let us offer him close to the max, but certainly enough to give him a long term deal at the rumoured 17M).

    Of course, it would have to make sense to bring him back at that price. So he'd have to be able to play next to JV.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    Miekenstien wrote: View Post
    how does the biyombo situation work?

    he declines his year and becomes an UFA, highest bidder. but, hypothetically for understanding purposes, he picks up his option and we get small bird rights and he is a UFA next year. we still have a limit on how much we can pay him? why if he is an UFA?
    Dan can confirm.. but if he picks up his option, then the Raptors would have Biz under contract for 2 years. This gives them Early Bird rights.. With Early Bird rights you can resign a free agent by going over the cap, but the extension is small.. only 175% of his previous year's contract (which would end up being a paltry $5M.. or it can be just above the average salary which I would assume is about the same).

    There are basically two ways we can retain Biz in my opinion. One is that we go over the cap (which is easy if we sign DD and go over the cap doing it). We then have the non-tax payer mid-level ($5.6M). We offer him that and hope he resigns for 1 more year. Then in 2017 he will be a UFA but we can then sign him again using his Early Bird rights (which would grow to $9.8M)..

    The other is we free up cap space (trade Ross and possibly Bebe for cap relief). Then resign him as a free agent to about $10-$11M a year.

    Picking up his option is just not something he would do. That's just under $3M for a guy that will be coveted because of what he did in the playoffs. Lots of teams with cap space too.

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  • Miekenstien
    replied
    how does the biyombo situation work?

    he declines his year and becomes an UFA, highest bidder. but, hypothetically for understanding purposes, he picks up his option and we get small bird rights and he is a UFA next year. we still have a limit on how much we can pay him? why if he is an UFA?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Bi-annual can only be used by over the cap teams, just like the regular MLE.

    The room MLE (the 3M on Bismack) would be all we have if we use cap space.
    Thanks

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  • DanH
    replied
    Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    If we decide to let Demar go and use our cap space we still have a couple exceptions correct?

    Bi-annual hasn't been used since we used it on JJ I believe
    And the 3M we used on Bismack
    Bi-annual can only be used by over the cap teams, just like the regular MLE.

    The room MLE (the 3M on Bismack) would be all we have if we use cap space.

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  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    That's a hard sell for those two to re-sign though. "We couldn't win anything with you two alongside one of the best players to ever play the game. But we think we can win big time with you two but without him."
    If we decide to let Demar go and use our cap space we still have a couple exceptions correct?

    Bi-annual hasn't been used since we used it on JJ I believe
    And the 3M we used on Bismack

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  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    That's a hard sell for those two to re-sign though. "We couldn't win anything with you two alongside one of the best players to ever play the game. But we think we can win big time with you two but without him."
    True.

    Who knows, maybe Westbrook wants a team built around him

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  • DanH
    replied
    Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    I don't see that as likely, gut feeling is that if Durant leaves they'll try to build around those two
    That's a hard sell for those two to re-sign though. "We couldn't win anything with you two alongside one of the best players to ever play the game. But we think we can win big time with you two but without him."

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  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Assumption is they try to get something for Ibaka and Westbrook, both of whom can leave the following summer, if Durant bails on the team.
    I don't see that as likely, gut feeling is that if Durant leaves they'll try to build around those two

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  • DanH
    replied
    Bonus Jonas wrote: View Post
    Honestly not sure they do that. Ross fills a big hole for them for sure but without Ibaka they're putting a lot on Collison/McGary.

    Not to mention I'm not sure they want Wright/Bebe with Payne, Adams
    Assumption is they try to get something for Ibaka and Westbrook, both of whom can leave the following summer, if Durant bails on the team.

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  • Bonus Jonas
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Knicks, Ross, LAC pick, our 2017 pick, one of Wright/BeBe. With it being a straight trade we can even wait for August so we can sign the draftee first and use that salary as ballast.
    Honestly not sure they do that. Ross fills a big hole for them for sure but without Ibaka they're putting a lot on Collison/McGary.

    Not to mention I'm not sure they want Wright/Bebe with Payne, Adams

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  • Machine
    replied
    FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    Hmm doesn't sound bad at all.
    Tho I would hate to see Patterson go.

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  • Machine
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    It's possible but it probably sucks us dry in terms of depth. Carroll is unlikely to be wanted in a sign and trade, so it is probably Ross and Patterson and a sign-and-traded JJ (at 5M) plus a couple prospects and picks.

    We lose all PF depth, we lose Ross (though that's OK with Powell here), but we gain one of the best players ever.
    Hmm doesn't sound bad at all.

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  • DanH
    replied
    FoxMachine wrote: View Post
    So like, what would have to happen to get Durant (if they somehow lost in the first round and he wants to come to toronto lol)? Who can we keep and would we have a bench at all? I don't know anything about the cap really. Is it even possible?
    It's possible but it probably sucks us dry in terms of depth. Carroll is unlikely to be wanted in a sign and trade, so it is probably Ross and Patterson and a sign-and-traded JJ (at 5M) plus a couple prospects and picks.

    We lose all PF depth, we lose Ross (though that's OK with Powell here), but we gain one of the best players ever.

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