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Raptors Salary Cap Situation (and planning for the future)

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  • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
    2nd rounders have to be extended qualifying offers? That's news to me.

    This is a rare situation, with the best comparison being Thanassis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think NYC's development team is also in their back yard. If Daniels hadn't gotten hurt, and Powell hadn't vaulted over him, I'd be all for adding him to the roster. But stuff happened, and a hobbled Daniels isn't in the best position to negotiate. He is, however, in a good place to get cared for and develop his game, even if he can't get rich doing so.

    The Raptors should want to make the best use of the 905s as is possible, and that includes having 2nd rounders play there before signing to engender themselves to the organization and the other players. Now, maybe Daniels was told that he'd be signed, and maybe that's an agreement you honour. Otherwise, it makes sense to ask your 2nd rounders to try to make the main squad and play for the 905s or elsewhere if they can't.
    I understand Dan's reasoning, but I fail to understand yours. Yeah, what you suggest is better for the Raptors, but what incentive is there for Daniels in your scenario? Daniels agent would tell the Raps nicely to go fuck themselves, there's teams out there that would offer more money and an easier path to an NBA pay cheque.
    If we knew half as much about coaching an NBA team as we think, we"d know twice as much as we do.

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    • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
      2nd rounders have to be extended qualifying offers? That's news to me.

      This is a rare situation, with the best comparison being Thanassis. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think NYC's development team is also in their back yard. If Daniels hadn't gotten hurt, and Powell hadn't vaulted over him, I'd be all for adding him to the roster. But stuff happened, and a hobbled Daniels isn't in the best position to negotiate. He is, however, in a good place to get cared for and develop his game, even if he can't get rich doing so.

      The Raptors should want to make the best use of the 905s as is possible, and that includes having 2nd rounders play there before signing to engender themselves to the organization and the other players. Now, maybe Daniels was told that he'd be signed, and maybe that's an agreement you honour. Otherwise, it makes sense to ask your 2nd rounders to try to make the main squad and play for the 905s or elsewhere if they can't.
      Any draft pick has to be extended a contract every summer or you lose their rights. First round draft picks qualifying tender is an 80% rookie scale deal. Second rounders it is a one year fully unguaranteed minimum salary contract. You can instead offer a different contract, but those are the minimum required.
      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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      • 3inthekeon wrote: View Post
        I understand Dan's reasoning, but I fail to understand yours. Yeah, what you suggest is better for the Raptors, but what incentive is there for Daniels in your scenario? Daniels agent would tell the Raps nicely to go fuck themselves, there's teams out there that would offer more money and an easier path to an NBA pay cheque.
        Daniels is a 2nd round pick, most of whom never set foot in the league, coming off injury. The incentive is that he gets to continue playing with his teammates, who he's already starting to build relationships with, and ingratiate himself to the organization that owns his NBA rights. You think Daniels has leverage at this point? His alternative is to sign with a team in Europe, which is probably just fine from the Raptors point of view - hold onto his rights whilst he continues developing.

        Am I missing something here?

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        • DanH wrote: View Post
          Any draft pick has to be extended a contract every summer or you lose their rights. First round draft picks qualifying tender is an 80% rookie scale deal. Second rounders it is a one year fully unguaranteed minimum salary contract. You can instead offer a different contract, but those are the minimum required.
          So you're saying all those years of hanging onto Zubcic and Prentezis's rights, we were offering them contracts and they just chose to never came aboard? (maybe this was due to the previous CBA). I thought the great thing about 2nd rounders was that they weren't guaranteed a contract. And why don't they have a cap hold if you have to tender them a contract?

          Either way, I don't think it's that out of line to tell a 2nd rounder that there isn't room on the roster for him this year, but that he'll be taken care of in Toronto, in our training facilities, in our organization, living expenses taken care of, and that he'll get a 3 or 4 year deal the following year.

          If we have to tend the minimum, so be it, but I think Masai will have some very persuasive convos telling him to come aboard with the 905s, or finding him a (much) more lucrative deal in Europe. If we have 15 players, as I think we soon will, I guess his alternative is to take the nonguaranteed minimum deal, make a few grand, get waived after training camp, and then try to find another team.
          Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Sat Jul 18, 2015, 08:10 PM.

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          • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
            So you're saying all those years of hanging onto Zubcic and Prentezis's rights, we were offering them contracts and they just chose to never came aboard? (maybe this was due to the previous CBA). I thought the great thing about 2nd rounders was that they weren't guaranteed a contract. And why don't they have a cap hold if you have to tender them a contract?

            Either way, I don't think it's that out of line to tell a 2nd rounder that there isn't room on the roster for him this year, but that he'll be taken care of in Toronto, in our training facilities, in our organization, living expenses taken care of, and that he'll get a 3 or 4 year deal the following year.

            If we have to tend the minimum, so be it, but I think Masai will have some very persuasive convos telling him to come aboard with the 905s, or finding him a (much) more lucrative deal in Europe. If we have 15 players, as I think we soon will, I guess his alternative is to take the nonguaranteed minimum deal, make a few grand, get waived after training camp, and then try to find another team.
            Yes, Zubcic or Printezis could have paid their buyouts from their European contracts, and signed a fully unguaranteed deal here against the team's wishes only to be immediately waived and then be free to pursue offers from other teams. But neither were ever going to get a contract offer here, so why would they do that?

            They essentially do have a cap hold - they are offered a deal at the minimum salary, which is also the hold that is applied to empty roster spots. So any empty roster spot can represent their cap hold. And failing that, they can be signed to that tender deal with the minimum exception, so no cap space is needed to sign them if it comes down to it.

            And if he signs the tender, and he is waived before the season, he gets zero dollars. And we lose his draft rights.
            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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            • I guess my question, then, is: Do you think Daniels, fresh off a broken foot, is ready to accept the risk of going against the Raptors' wishes and signing the tendered minimum, when his preference of the 905s and Europe is also on the table?

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              • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                I guess my question, then, is: Do you think Daniels, fresh off a broken foot, is ready to accept the risk of going against the Raptors' wishes and signing the tendered minimum, when his preference of the 905s and Europe is also on the table?
                Absolutely not. Nor do I think the Raptors, fresh off a season in which he went where they told him to, would be willing to accept the risk of pissing off him AND his agent (whose agency represents who knows how many players) by insisting he play for a D-League salary. At this point the only reasonable choices for the team to present to him would be to find a well paying position in Europe, or to sign him and ensure him a professional level salary even if he spends most of his time in the D-League.

                Heck, the team can certainly offer the option. And Daniels could certainly accept. I'm just saying such a situation is extremely rare. OKC had to make a first round pick out of a guy projected in the mid-late second round to get buy in from he and his agent to sit in the D-League for a year.
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                • What's the idea of keeping nando de colo on our books? will he be used as a trade chip?

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                  • drunkmunky wrote: View Post
                    What's the idea of keeping nando de colo on our books? will he be used as a trade chip?
                    Nope. Unless we sign him and then trade him later in the season. Can't trade a free agent's rights, and can't sign-and-trade a guy who's been out of the league. I imagine it is simply keeping options open down the road - if we at some point need a vet backup PG and are well over the cap, if he improves in Europe he could be brought over on a mid-level sized deal (we have his Early Bird Rights).
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • Since I've seen some talk and even a thread on the topic, here is what our 2016 summer looks like right now.

                      We have 9 players locked into contracts (KL, DC, CJ, PP, BB, BeBe, Bruno, Wright, Powell).

                      We also have two draft picks (for this calc I've assumed 20th and 10th overall picks).

                      We also have several free agents. DD, JV, Ross, Scola, JJ and de Colo. Only 4 spots for them right now.

                      Cap situation:

                      Keep all cap holds: 8M over cap
                      Waive JJ, Scola and Nando: 2.3M cap room
                      Also waive Ross: 11.2M in cap room
                      Also waive DD: 25.4M in cap room (enough for a max offer on Durant, for example)

                      If JV and/or Ross are extended those extensions eat into our cap room if they are bigger than their cap holds (11.7M and 8.9M respectively).
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • What are the chances we'll off load T Ross while he's still an asset before the next season?

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                        • drunkmunky wrote: View Post
                          What are the chances we'll off load T Ross while he's still an asset before the next season?
                          Who knows? Can't predict Masai.
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                          • Basketball insiders getting their confirmed salaries up now. Insistent on DeMar's value sitting at 10.05M, curious what those incentives are...

                            Powell got a slightly above min first year plus the minimum for the next two, third year unguaranteed. 650k this year. Scola got 2.9M.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • DanH wrote: View Post
                              Basketball insiders getting their confirmed salaries up now. Insistent on DeMar's value sitting at 10.05M, curious what those incentives are...

                              Powell got a slightly above min first year plus the minimum for the next two, third year unguaranteed. 650k this year. Scola got 2.9M.
                              Raptors gave about 25% more than they had to.

                              That is good for Powell.

                              $125k is $125k.

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                              • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
                                Raptors gave about 25% more than they had to.

                                That is good for Powell.

                                $125k is $125k.
                                Probably bought them that unguaranteed third year. And with Biyombo they are well over the cap anyways, good way to use that last shred of cap room to foster good will with a player and his agent.
                                twitter.com/dhackett1565

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