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  • DD prime has nothing to do with producing wins.

    He has only managed to be above average in 1 of 6 seasons.

    .....but he works hard.


    Lowry coming off the books gives more cap space in 2017. Meanwhile the Raptors have 2 PGs waiting on the bench that could take his place.

    For the amount of posts screaming about other options, seems it is cut and dry on Lowry.

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    • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
      DD prime has nothing to do with producing wins.

      He has only managed to be above average in 1 of 6 seasons.

      .....but he works hard.


      Lowry coming off the books gives more cap space in 2017. Meanwhile the Raptors have 2 PGs waiting on the bench that could take his place.

      For the amount of posts screaming about other options, seems it is cut and dry on Lowry.
      So if you're planning to replace Lowry in a season anyway... why not do it now and keep the guy who's likely going to retain the same value he has now over the life of his next deal? Or is that a crazy proposition?

      I don't care that DeRozan works hard or not the only relevance there is that he keeps in good shape so he rarely gets hurt, don't lump me in with the DeRozan fans who think we should pay him because of that. I want to keep him because he's one of the best 2-guards in the league and would likely retain his value over the life of his next deal. Idk if I can say the same about signing Lowry to a large deal in 2017 where he would be 31-35 years old.

      And trading Lowry to free room for KD is just one option. Could also move bench players. Or hell we could trade Carroll who plays the same position as Durant. My issue is that some of you are letting your dislike for DeRozan cloud your view of these other options. I get that you want DeRozan gone, but that isn't the only way or even necessarily the smartest way to get Durant here.
      Last edited by JWash; Sat Aug 29th, 2015, 10:39 AM.

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      • JWash wrote: View Post
        On a cheap contract for 1 more year (2016/17) after this upcoming one and then in 2017 you've got to decide whether to pay a 31 year old PG with an injury history and how much to pay him in order to keep him. Plus the window would be shorter. With DD you're basically signing him through his prime so barring some type of injury you wouldn't really expect a drop in production from age 26-30.



        I'm not necessarily saying that DD is key to getting Durant, in fact I didn't even mention that in my post. I just think it would actually be less risky to move Lowry instead, instead of the plan being to let DD walk. That way if you don't get Durant you just keep DD/Lowry and if you do get Durant then you re-sign DD as well, trade Lowry to a team for picks (which should be easy as fuck because of how many teams will have cap space and how few all-star FAs there are). Then you've got a core of DD-KD-JV locked in until the end of the decade and all in or heading into their primes in JV's case.

        This is obviously a distinct possibility, and it COULD be Masai's plan. What I'm debating is the sentiment that DD has to be let go (or even should be let go) in order to sign Durant.
        JWash - You're making too much sense here.

        The people who dislike Demar refuse to accept this possibility.




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        • If DD was one of the best 2 guards in the league there would be some form of advanced stat to #ProveEm but there is not.

          If you want to base your opinion on PPG then you're right.

          Max that mo'fo.


          Who is taking about signing Lowry to huge deal?

          Who else goes to make a max contract offer? DD cap hold nearly $3m more than Lowry salary.

          Or do you trade Lowry for future picks?


          Time to face reality that the BEAT way to get a real max talent in FA in 2016 is to let DD walk.

          Is there anyone here who would straight up trade DD for KD or Horford? Because that is the choice over stripping starters on value contracts, bench, prospects, and future picks to keep a volume scorer who is average defender on opposition weaker wing threat.

          Comment


          • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
            If DD was one of the best 2 guards in the league there would be some form of advanced stat to #ProveEm but there is not.

            If you want to base your opinion on PPG then you're right.

            Max that mo'fo.


            Who is taking about signing Lowry to huge deal?

            Who else goes to make a max contract offer? DD cap hold nearly $3m more than Lowry salary.

            Or do you trade Lowry for future picks?


            Time to face reality that the BEAT way to get a real max talent in FA in 2016 is to let DD walk.

            Is there anyone here who would straight up trade DD for KD or Horford? Because that is the choice over stripping starters on value contracts, bench, prospects, and future picks to keep a volume scorer who is average defender on opposition weaker wing threat.
            Trading Lowry and Biyombo (or BB just opting out, which is likely if he does anything of note this year) would create enough room to sign Durant. I already explained that in my long post previously, but that's cool that you chose to ignore it.

            I don't think I've ever suggested maxing DeRozan.

            Nobody is talking about signing Lowry to a big deal, however in 2017 FA you would have to if you intended to keep him, which would be quite risky considering he'd be 31-35 over the life of that new deal. Which for most players is a period of significant decline in production and durability.

            What you're calling a "reality" isn't one. It's just a possibility lol. This Lowry option might actually be better considering we already have a potential replacement locked in for 3 years for dirt cheap and his potential backup locked in for 4 on a rookie deal. Plus the title window with KL-KD-JV would be shorter than with DD-KD-JV because of his age. Also considering the fact that there is a lot of star power at PG, it's incredibly important to have an elite defender at that position, which CoJo has the potential, size and skillset to be. In previous discussions both you and DanH have agreed with me that CoJo likely does have the skills to be a long-term starter down the line. Maybe he's another Lowry where when he finally gets the chance to run the show he shines... and he'd be 25 next year.

            That question is kind of silly. I mean in my scenario we're basically trading Lowry for KD/Horford AND picks (from wherever he gets dealt to). Isn't that a better trade? Or would you trade 2Pat+other bench players for KD/Horford? Answer to all those questions is yes lol.

            Here's the thing. I don't even have a problem with letting DD walk to sign KD, because obviously KD is a better player. But to me there are other options, some of them which may be better. You refuse to acknowledge those options because all you want is DD OFF THIS TEAM, and that's what makes this discussion difficult.

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            • If you trade Lowry you also need to move two other assets (like Bebe and Wright) along with Biyombo (or about $3M). With DD you just need to move Biyombo (or about $3M).

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              • planetmars wrote: View Post
                If you trade Lowry you also need to move two other assets (like Bebe and Wright) along with Biyombo (or about $3M). With DD you just need to move Biyombo (or about $3M).
                You just need to not pick up Bebe's team option and let Biyombo walk (or trade him if he picks up his PO). Not that complicated. It's no different than what we have to do if we let DD walk.

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                • Also, if you take the "keep Lowry, lose DD) approach, then you are very close to max cap room in 2017 to add another star beside Durant. If you lose Lowry early and keep DD, you are well off and really need to shed a few pieces to get there.

                  To me, the only argument for trying to keep DD is if he is key to Durant signing here. Otherwise he simply isn't good enough to dedicate that kind of money towards him.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • JWash wrote: View Post
                    You just need to not pick up Bebe's team option and let Biyombo walk (or trade him if he picks up his PO). Not that complicated. It's no different than what we have to do if we let DD walk.
                    BeBe's team option needs to be picked up within the next two months. And even then, you probably need to get rid of BeBe plus another rookie scale piece, even assuming Biyombo opts out of his contract. Or get rid of Patterson for very little salary return.
                    twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                    • DanH wrote: View Post
                      I don't think 2016 is the target and the past few posts are reasons why. If you are planning on DD + KD, you leave room to be able to do it, or to pull it off with small trades. Not by putting yourself in a situation where you have to make significant moves to clear the cap space.

                      If there is a plan for KD, DD is not involved.
                      DanH wrote: View Post
                      Also, if you take the "keep Lowry, lose DD) approach, then you are very close to max cap room in 2017 to add another star beside Durant. If you lose Lowry early and keep DD, you are well off and really need to shed a few pieces to get there.

                      To me, the only argument for trying to keep DD is if he is key to Durant signing here. Otherwise he simply isn't good enough to dedicate that kind of money towards him.
                      Ok looks like we're making some progress. At least that BS ultimatum that you guys tried to put on it is gone.

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Also, if you take the "keep Lowry, lose DD) approach, then you are very close to max cap room in 2017 to add another star beside Durant. If you lose Lowry early and keep DD, you are well off and really need to shed a few pieces to get there.

                        To me, the only argument for trying to keep DD is if he is key to Durant signing here. Otherwise he simply isn't good enough to dedicate that kind of money towards him.
                        Let's see how he plays this upcoming season.

                        He may very well prove that he is good enough to be a part of the future here.

                        I'm not sure what kind of money you're talking about.....

                        I recall you stating numerous times that you would sign JV to max or a near max extension - Masai signed him for $16 million per year. Who knows what we'll resign DD for.....

                        It just goes to show that we shouldn't be making assumptions.


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                        • Dd goes if you want kd, cause, as has been pointed out sooooo many times, there is no reason to pay dd money to play beside kd.

                          It is bs to find any reasoning to find logic in having dd and kd paired up

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                          • JWash wrote: View Post
                            Ok looks like we're making some progress. At least that BS ultimatum that you guys tried to put on it is gone.
                            I stand by that. If Masai was planning to use DD as a lure for Durant, he would have done a better job building his other contracts around freeing up flexibility to do so.

                            My points are not exclusive. First, the only value DeMar can bring is IF he would be a key attraction for Durant. Judging by Masai's moves, he does not believe he will be and has not included DD being kept in any plan to get Durant.

                            I can't believe that's really that hard to follow.
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • I'm not even suggesting that letting DD walk to sign KD is a bad idea.... it obviously isn't. What I have an issue with is you guys making it out to be the ONLY smart option when it clearly is not.

                              You're saying it because you want DD gone, I get that. Some of you probably wouldn't want DD back even if Horford and KD went on TV right now and said "FUCK Toronto I'd never sign in that dump". So really I think at the end of the day this has become another DD debate and not really a discussion on how we can bring in KD.

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                              • Snooch wrote: View Post
                                Dd goes if you want kd, cause, as has been pointed out sooooo many times, there is no reason to pay dd money to play beside kd.

                                It is bs to find any reasoning to find logic in having dd and kd paired up

                                Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk
                                The same could be said of Lowry. CoJo next to KD might be a better option to free cap space and maximize KD

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