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Raptors Salary Cap Situation (and planning for the future)

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  • raptors999
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Yes, traded away in advance - ie before they signed a big name. It is the only way to do it without bleeding assets (heck look at the cost for Golden State when they wanted to make the Iggy signing a sign and trade). So it is a huge risk - trade away a big chunk of our depth just in case Durant signs with us? Sounds like a terrible plan to me.
    It's what the Kings did by sending Stauskas to Philly with two overpaid PF

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  • DanH
    replied
    Yes, traded away in advance - ie before they signed a big name. It is the only way to do it without bleeding assets (heck look at the cost for Golden State when they wanted to make the Iggy signing a sign and trade). So it is a huge risk - trade away a big chunk of our depth just in case Durant signs with us? Sounds like a terrible plan to me.

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  • JWash
    replied
    There is a way it just involves trading away other players.

    It's not unheard of. Morey, who is basically Masai's Western Conference doppleganger, traded away Lin and Asik who were both very valuable role players for the Rockets in 2014 so he could make a run at LeBron, Bosh, Lowry, etc. Both guys were still owed 8.4M the next season (2014-15).

    Asik played 20mpg backing up and sometimes playing alongside D12, while Lin logged just shy of 30.

    EDIT: Asik was actually traded as part of the Ariza signing, but to me that's an indication Morey would've been willing to dump him if necessary.
    Last edited by JWash; Wed Aug 26, 2015, 11:00 AM.

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  • Mapko
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    JV has been officially signed. That's over with.

    Even if he hadn't been, between his 12M cap hold and DeMar's 15M cap hold, there would only be about 12M in cap room left over for Durant.

    So, no, there doesn't have to be a way.
    Sorry, I know.
    I was hoping you'd tell me what I wanted to hear.

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  • DanH
    replied
    JV has been officially signed. That's over with.

    Even if he hadn't been, between his 12M cap hold and DeMar's 15M cap hold, there would only be about 12M in cap room left over for Durant.

    So, no, there doesn't have to be a way.

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  • Mapko
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    Agreed, that's my expectation as well.

    Though it should be noted they would have room for 7-9 year vet max, not the true max.
    Just wondering:
    Is it possible to slightly "change order" of signings next year:
    1. Demar has a cap hold of 14+ mil -wait;
    2. Sign Durant or Horford (if possible);
    3. Then officially sign JVal to 14+ mil Extension;
    4. Resign Demar to market value (my guess 20-25 mil).
    Even with all of the above we should be UNDER luxury tax, so there has to be a way.

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  • mcHAPPY
    replied
    DanH wrote: View Post
    The 4.5% increases assumed by the NBA are increases in non-TV deal income. So not an expected 4.5% increase overall. It may well increase by that much, but a) they are not "on a roll" as this year they exceeded the projection but the prior year they didn't and b) that is not what they are predicting, and they know their revenue streams better than anyone.
    Soooooo....

    What you're saying here....

    If I assume correctly....

    Is that the Raptors will indeed sign KD?

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  • DanH
    replied
    The 4.5% increases assumed by the NBA are increases in non-TV deal income. So not an expected 4.5% increase overall. It may well increase by that much, but a) they are not "on a roll" as this year they exceeded the projection but the prior year they didn't and b) that is not what they are predicting, and they know their revenue streams better than anyone.

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  • SkywalkerAC
    replied
    If we did land Durant I'd think it would be through sign and trade.

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  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    JWash wrote: View Post
    This is highly debatable. Not going to turn this into a DeRozan thread, but the fact is there is nothing concrete about that statement. And the fact that this is the primary premise for the argument against trading the bench guys vs. letting DD walk, is why I do not agree with that argument at all.
    Fair enough. I meant from a financial standpoint, given how many assets would need to be given up and how many trades would need to be made, all without taking any guaranteed salary back. I wasn't trying to start a player/value debate. I did make it clear that the decision would very likely wind up being DeRozan VS a lot more than just backups and bench fodder, purely from a numbers perspective.

    Everybody is free to weigh the pros & cons of all the various alternatives I laid out, coming to their own decision about preference and judgment.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Aug 25, 2015, 01:00 PM.

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  • JWash
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    Patterson & Joseph ($13.38M) combine to be less than DeRozan's cap hold ($15.075M), so some of those players you mentioned would likely have to be traded away (with no salary coming back) as well - and that was using the $93M cap projection from planetmars' scenario. Don't forget, trading away players for nothing means that you'd then have to factor in the cap holds for the empty slots (up to 12 roster slots), meaning that your idea really isn't feasible, especially if the cap is closer to $89M.

    Even trading Lowry isn't enough, as more than $3M additional salary would need to be dumped, along with enough beyond that to then cover the cap holds for the empty roster slots that the trade(s) creates. Likely one of Patterson or Joseph would need to be traded away with Lowry.

    Valanciunas and Carroll are the only players you could likely trade instead of letting DeRozan go, and even then you'd probably have to drop another cheap player (with Carroll at least).

    If MU is serious about going after a max free agent, it really makes no sense to try and keep DeRozan, especially if the max player is a wing (ie: Durant). It's not just a matter of completely gutting the bench, but likely gutting the bench and losing a starter (the Raps are already missing a legit starting PF). That's in addition to maxing out the cap, while having many holes to fill, just to keep a player whose greatest strengths are replicated (more efficiently) by the max free agent you're acquiring.
    This is highly debatable. Not going to turn this into a DeRozan thread, but the fact is there is nothing concrete about that statement. And the fact that this is the primary premise for the argument against trading the bench guys vs. letting DD walk, is why I do not agree with that argument at all.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    JWash wrote: View Post
    Or could we keep Joseph and trade 2Pat, Wright, Biyombo, Bebe (or just not pick up his TO) and get pretty close? The latter 3 add up to about 6.3M which is 1M short of Joseph's deal.

    Leaves you with

    PG: Lowry/CoJo
    SG: DeRozan/Powell
    F: Durant/Bruno
    F: Carroll
    C: Jonas

    2016 DEN/NYK pick slotted in somewhere.

    Could use the room exception to pick up a backup center then go bargain bin hunting or ring-chaser hunting for a backup 4.
    Patterson & Joseph ($13.38M) combine to be less than DeRozan's cap hold ($15.075M), so some of those players you mentioned would likely have to be traded away (with no salary coming back) as well - and that was using the $93M cap projection from planetmars' scenario. Don't forget, trading away players for nothing means that you'd then have to factor in the cap holds for the empty slots (up to 12 roster slots), meaning that your idea really isn't feasible, especially if the cap is closer to $89M.

    Even trading Lowry isn't enough, as more than $3M additional salary would need to be dumped, along with enough beyond that to then cover the cap holds for the empty roster slots that the trade(s) creates. Likely one of Patterson or Joseph would need to be traded away with Lowry.

    Valanciunas and Carroll are the only players you could likely trade instead of letting DeRozan go, and even then you'd probably have to drop another cheap player (with Carroll at least).

    If MU is serious about going after a max free agent, it really makes no sense to try and keep DeRozan, especially if the max player is a wing (ie: Durant). It's not just a matter of completely gutting the bench, but likely gutting the bench and losing a starter (the Raps are already missing a legit starting PF). That's in addition to maxing out the cap, while having many holes to fill, just to keep a player whose greatest strengths are replicated (more efficiently) by the max free agent you're acquiring.
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Aug 25, 2015, 12:09 PM.

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  • JWash
    replied
    CalgaryRapsFan wrote: View Post
    - Carroll
    - Lowry
    - Valanciunas
    - Patterson & Joseph
    Or could we keep Joseph and trade 2Pat, Wright, Biyombo, Bebe (or just not pick up his TO) and get pretty close? The latter 3 add up to about 6.3M which is 1M short of Joseph's deal.

    Leaves you with

    PG: Lowry/CoJo
    SG: DeRozan/Powell
    F: Durant/Bruno
    F: Carroll
    C: Jonas

    2016 DEN/NYK pick slotted in somewhere.

    Could use the room exception to pick up a backup center then go bargain bin hunting or ring-chaser hunting for a backup 4.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalgaryRapsFan
    replied
    planetmars wrote: View Post
    Assuming cap is at $93M and KD's starting salary is at $26M then the numbers look like this:

    $64,982,370 - assuming DD, TR, JJ, Scola, De Colo are renounced and Biyombo has yet to pick up his option (also assuming 5th/20th picks in draft are selected).

    $28,017,630 - cap left from the $93M assumed cap

    $2,017,630 - left after signing KD (with a $26M starting salary - this is estimated)

    Biyombo's option is $2,940,630, which is $923,000 over the cap.. so the Raps would have to clear up about $1M if the cap was adjusted like that.

    Raptors will have their room mid-level which is about $2.9M. Since they're going to have to use cap space to get KD they won't have the non-tax payer mid-level.
    Another way that the salaries could just about work, depending on where the cap comes in, is if Biyombo picks up his option (I assume he will unless he has an absolute break-out season) and the Raps trade their own pick (ie #20 in your scenario - MU has stated that it's unlikely they use all 4 1st round picks they have over the next two drafts).

    That would leave the roster looking like this, ahead of free agency, with right around enough space for a max offer:

    C: Valanciunas, Biyombo, Bebe
    PF: Patterson
    SF: Carroll, Powell, Bruno
    SG:
    PG: Lowry, Joseph, Wright
    + #2-10 draft pick from DEN/NYK
    + cap hold for 12th roster spot

    Gone: DeRozan, Ross, Scola, JJ, 15th man, De Colo's rights


    In order to sign a max free agent and be able to keep DeRozan, the Raptors would need to trade at least one of the following:
    - Carroll
    - Lowry
    - Valanciunas
    - Patterson & Joseph
    Last edited by CalgaryRapsFan; Tue Aug 25, 2015, 10:09 AM.

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  • planetmars
    replied
    Heatdreamer wrote: View Post
    The cap space is predicated by BRI increases which Silver and crew have been on a roll increasing with a number of new sponsors and for new classifications. Increasing the projected BRI Which was 89 million per team based on a salary cap in 2015 at $66.3 million when the new TV deal was announced in 2014.
    As stated earlier NBA philosophy is to increase revenues from sponsors and it is my belief , a more aggressive figure for salary cap may push the figure between $94-95 million dollars, since average increases of BRI are 4.5% per annum.
    That is where the $89 x 1.045= $93 million salary cap is being mentioned.
    Dan, based on a more aggressive salary cap scenario, how does this affect the aspirational KD format, and does this allow BB to return to the fold.
    Could KD be signed and the Raptors have a MLE?
    Assuming cap is at $93M and KD's starting salary is at $26M then the numbers look like this:

    $64,982,370 - assuming DD, TR, JJ, Scola, De Colo are renounced and Biyombo has yet to pick up his option (also assuming 5th/20th picks in draft are selected).

    $28,017,630 - cap left from the $93M assumed cap

    $2,017,630 - left after signing KD (with a $26M starting salary - this is estimated)

    Biyombo's option is $2,940,630, which is $923,000 over the cap.. so the Raps would have to clear up about $1M if the cap was adjusted like that.

    Raptors will have their room mid-level which is about $2.9M. Since they're going to have to use cap space to get KD they won't have the non-tax payer mid-level.

    Leave a comment:

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