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Raptors Salary Cap Situation (and planning for the future)

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  • DanH wrote: View Post
    As a note, B ball insiders has changed their report so that all three 15th man candidates are 25k guaranteed. So those who were skeptical were correct to be so.

    Competition is wide open financially, at least.
    Still should be Steimsma, me thinks, considering:

    1) Cherry is not NBA ready and GV/Lou are there.
    2) Hamilton is not a difference maker and is only a Bruno minute stealer,

    Steamer is a big who can block shots. The only other who can do that is Bebe and he is an injury question mark and, like Bruno, very raw.

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    • mcHAPPY wrote: View Post
      Still should be Steimsma, me thinks, considering:

      1) Cherry is not NBA ready and GV/Lou are there.
      2) Hamilton is not a difference maker and is only a Bruno minute stealer,

      Steamer is a big who can block shots. The only other who can do that is Bebe and he is an injury question mark and, like Bruno, very raw.
      Have to agree. Stiemsma's a pretty limited player....but he challenges shots, including being a bit of a goon willing to give up some fouls. Still not the ideal backup C (think he and Hayes are basically both 3rd stringers), but adding Bebe's current injury situation, it just makes far more sense than the other options.

      I was hoping Cherry would win the job, since from a skills perspective, I'd much rather have a 3rd PG who can replace some of what our guards bring if one goes down with an injury, but he's just been atrocious. I still think we need that more than a C like Stiemsma...but since we don't seem to have that as an option, Stiemsma is a perfectly serviceable depth C.
      Last edited by white men can't jump; Wed Oct 15th, 2014, 06:26 PM.

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      • I agree with you - we just have to remove finances as yet another reason.
        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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        • I think with all the dead weight gone this offseason, we should definitely get a good backup C, who knows his role and accepts it.
          The name's Bond, James Bond.

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          • 007 wrote: View Post
            I think with all the dead weight gone this offseason, we should definitely get a good backup C, who knows his role and accepts it.
            Make the Horford Trade and Rotate the JV, Horford and Patterson as 30 minutes JV, 16 minutes Horford PF & 18 Minutes Center, Patterson for 24 minutes, and Hansborough 8 minutes. There is your time allotment.

            What is the big deal? JJ fills in when everyone has foul trouble. IF Horford and JV get into foul trouble we send Psycho to Center. JJ and him can physically maim the opposition.

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            • Heatdreamer wrote: View Post
              Make the Horford Trade and Rotate the JV, Horford and Patterson as 30 minutes JV, 16 minutes Horford PF & 18 Minutes Center, Patterson for 24 minutes, and Hansborough 8 minutes. There is your time allotment.

              What is the big deal? JJ fills in when everyone has foul trouble. IF Horford and JV get into foul trouble we send Psycho to Center. JJ and him can physically maim the opposition.
              Agreed. If we get Horford, our big depth is set even if Amir is gone. JV can handle more than 30 MPG too - no need for Hansbrough in the regular rotation, just injury insurance.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

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              • Dan , how does this affect our cash flow in 2016 with respect to the cap . If Lou Willaims scores 10-12 ppg, do we resign him. It is nice to have our own Vinny Johnson.

                You need to sign a SF , DD -15-17 million and the same for Al Horford? JV could be a 5 year deal at 12 million with 7.5% increases
                Per annum. With KL at 12 million , Four the top 4 players the salaries totaling 60 million dollars.

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                • Yeah, if we choose to keep either of Amir or Lou, it is very unlikely we are looking at max cap room in 2016. Both, nowhere close. If a deal is made for Horford, again, no way we have much in way of significant cap room.

                  That said, we should be well clear of the tax. So we should be able to re-sign our guys and make a MLE size offer (maybe up to 10-14M depending on exactly who stays for how much) to a wing player.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                  • How does the MLE become 10-14 million ?

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                    • Heatdreamer wrote: View Post
                      How does the MLE become 10-14 million ?
                      Just depends on a) exactly who we keep and for how much (Amir or Lou could be between 0 and 16M committed), b) who gets sent out in a Horford trade, c) who besides Horford comes back this way and d) what the cap actually ends up being - depending on the plan it could be anywhere from 80 to 90 million.

                      So at the very least you have the MLE - best case I figure is maybe 14M, but still well short of the 24M for a max deal.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                      • DanH wrote: View Post
                        Just depends on a) exactly who we keep and for how much (Amir or Lou could be between 0 and 16M committed), b) who gets sent out in a Horford trade, c) who besides Horford comes back this way and d) what the cap actually ends up being - depending on the plan it could be anywhere from 80 to 90 million.

                        So at the very least you have the MLE - best case I figure is maybe 14M, but still well short of the 24M for a max deal.
                        B) do you believe Ross must be included in the deal for Horford . I see Amir plus a first plus Bruno plus Hayes.

                        Bruno maybe a big turn on, because of his potential. Bruno is 2 years away from cracking the 9 man rotation.

                        I would rather have a starting lineup of KL, DD, TRoss, Horford, & JV and the very solid bench of GV, Lou, JJ , PPat.
                        Hansborough , Jordan Hamilton, Fields & BeBe and Look for a 3rd Point guard.

                        To me , if you are going to compete everyday with Cleveland and Chicago. Toronto has the best bench , maybe not the starting 5.

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                        • DanH:

                          Any desire to update this based on what happened this off season?

                          I'm sure lots of members would gain valuable insight and save from numerous threads explaining that you can't keep Lou, Amir, and sign a MAX free agent.


                          .....now drop what you're doing and get at it!

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                          • Yes sir.

                            ---

                            Here's an update to the salary numbers in the first post, and a similar breakdown of our options next summer.

                            2014-15: current salaries

                            Kyle Lowry $12,000,000
                            DeMar DeRozan $10,100,000
                            Amir Johnson $7,000,000 (5 M guaranteed)
                            Greivis Vasquez $6,400,000
                            Landry Fields $6,250,000
                            Chuck Hayes $5,958,750
                            Patrick Patterson $5,831,326
                            Lou Williams $5,450,000
                            Jonas Valanciunas $3,678,360
                            Tyler Hansbrough $3,326,235
                            Terrence Ross $2,793,960
                            James Johnson $2,500,000
                            Lucas (BeBe) Nogueira $1,762,680
                            Bruno Caboclo $1,458,360
                            Greg Stiemsma $915,243 ($25k guaranteed)
                            Marcus Camby $646,609 (buyout)
                            Will Cherry $25,000 (buyout)
                            Jordan Hamilton $25,000 (buyout)

                            Nando de Colo $1,901,900 (cap hold; $1,828,750 QO)

                            Above roster: $76,121,523

                            Cap: 63.035 M
                            Tax: 76.829 M
                            Apron/Hard Cap: 80.829 M

                            So you can see we are right up against the tax line, so any trades this season will need to see close salary matching (or reducing salary) to steer clear of the tax.

                            So, already, conversations have turned to what we do next summer. First, what do we have locked in.

                            2015-16:

                            Kyle Lowry $12,000,000
                            DeMar DeRozan $10,100,000
                            Greivis Vasquez $6,600,000
                            Patrick Patterson $6,268,675
                            Jonas Valanciunas $4,660,482
                            Terrence Ross $3,553,917
                            James Johnson $2,500,000
                            Lucas (BeBe) Nogueira $1,842,000
                            Bruno Caboclo $1,524,000
                            2015 1st rounder (assumed 20th): $1,257,800 (cap hold)

                            Nando de Colo $1,901,900 (cap hold; $1,828,750 QO) -> assume we waive his rights to free up cap room

                            Projected cap: 66.5M

                            Above team salary is $51,357,060. That leaves 15.1M ish to sign a major free agent (or 15.6M to sign two), assuming we let all our expirings walk (that includes Amir, Fields, Hayes, Hansbrough, Williams). Then the room MLE of 2.814M, and minimum deals. But they only have room for 5 additions anyway, and only need to add 3 guys, so maybe it is just max-ish level guy, room MLE, and one minimum salary.

                            Alternatively, you can keep Amir or Lou or both, stay over the cap, and use the full MLE (5.3M) and BAE (2M) to add depth. Amir and Lou have cap holds of 10.5M and 8.2M respectively. They probably both sign for less than that, but not dramatically less. Even if only one re-signs on the order of about 6-7 M, that leaves us with less than 9M to work with - and on the eve of the cap boom, you are getting nothing special with that.

                            The basic outline of possibilities in 2016 remains the same - signing anyone long term in 2015 (whether that is Lou, Amir, or a guy like Millsap) means the only moves we can make in 2016 are via trade (or sign-and-trade).
                            twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                            • Thanks for posting that, really helpful

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                              • So two questions, b3cause I'm real new to this.. 1) If we were to trade away our 2015 1st can it be assumed based on the above calculations that we would have an addition 1.2 in space? 2) so if we keep Lou and amir (I would assume Lou would want close to his hold, though amir would take much less because of health and convenience) we are left with roughly 9-10 for one more guy?

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