Raptors Salary Cap Situation (and planning for the future)

[Bonus Jonas]

That's a hard sell for those two to re-sign though. "We couldn't win anything with you two alongside one of the best players to ever play the game. But we think we can win big time with you two but without him."

True.

Who knows, maybe Westbrook wants a team built around him

[Bonus Jonas]

That's a hard sell for those two to re-sign though. "We couldn't win anything with you two alongside one of the best players to ever play the game. But we think we can win big time with you two but without him."

If we decide to let Demar go and use our cap space we still have a couple exceptions correct?

Bi-annual hasn't been used since we used it on JJ I believe
And the 3M we used on Bismack

[DanH]

If we decide to let Demar go and use our cap space we still have a couple exceptions correct?

Bi-annual hasn't been used since we used it on JJ I believe
And the 3M we used on Bismack

Bi-annual can only be used by over the cap teams, just like the regular MLE.

The room MLE (the 3M on Bismack) would be all we have if we use cap space.

[Bonus Jonas]

Bi-annual can only be used by over the cap teams, just like the regular MLE.

The room MLE (the 3M on Bismack) would be all we have if we use cap space.

Thanks

[Miekenstien]

how does the biyombo situation work?

he declines his year and becomes an UFA, highest bidder. but, hypothetically for understanding purposes, he picks up his option and we get small bird rights and he is a UFA next year. we still have a limit on how much we can pay him? why if he is an UFA?

[planetmars]

how does the biyombo situation work?

he declines his year and becomes an UFA, highest bidder. but, hypothetically for understanding purposes, he picks up his option and we get small bird rights and he is a UFA next year. we still have a limit on how much we can pay him? why if he is an UFA?

Dan can confirm.. but if he picks up his option, then the Raptors would have Biz under contract for 2 years. This gives them Early Bird rights.. With Early Bird rights you can resign a free agent by going over the cap, but the extension is small.. only 175% of his previous year's contract (which would end up being a paltry $5M.. or it can be just above the average salary which I would assume is about the same).

There are basically two ways we can retain Biz in my opinion. One is that we go over the cap (which is easy if we sign DD and go over the cap doing it). We then have the non-tax payer mid-level ($5.6M). We offer him that and hope he resigns for 1 more year. Then in 2017 he will be a UFA but we can then sign him again using his Early Bird rights (which would grow to $9.8M)..

The other is we free up cap space (trade Ross and possibly Bebe for cap relief). Then resign him as a free agent to about $10-$11M a year.

Picking up his option is just not something he would do. That's just under $3M for a guy that will be coveted because of what he did in the playoffs. Lots of teams with cap space too.

[DanH]

how does the biyombo situation work?

he declines his year and becomes an UFA, highest bidder. but, hypothetically for understanding purposes, he picks up his option and we get small bird rights and he is a UFA next year. we still have a limit on how much we can pay him? why if he is an UFA?

Rights let you go over the cap. We can pay him whatever we want this summer or next if we have the cap space. Right now we don't.

So assuming you don't have the cap space... Need rights or an exception. We currently have Biyombo's non-Bird rights. Meaning we can sign him to a new deal over the cap. But his salary has to be almost identical to this year's salary. If he opts in (or we sign him to a one year deal with his rights) and he becomes a free agent next summer, we would have his Early Bird Rights. Then we can offer a 75% raise (or the average salary). So instead of 3M like right now, we could offer 6-8M.

The next step up the logic ladder suggests that this summer we could sign him to an exception instead of using his rights (we have the 6M MLE at our disposal). If he signs a one year deal, then becomes a free agent next summer, we again have his early Bird Rights. At that point the 75% raise on the 6M he earns is about 10.5M. Decent, but nowhere near the rumoured price this summer.

One thing that could happen, if Biyombo is open to a little risk and really wants to come back, is we trade Ross to make about 13M in cap room, then sign Biyombo to a two year deal where the second year is a player option. He gets 26M guaranteed, and is able to opt out and re-sign for more money the following summer (his early Bird rights would then let us offer him close to the max, but certainly enough to give him a long term deal at the rumoured 17M).

Of course, it would have to make sense to bring him back at that price. So he'd have to be able to play next to JV.

[Chefff]

Of course, it would have to make sense to bring him back at that price. So he'd have to be able to play next to JV.

Well, if JV plays 32mpg, and Biyombo plays 24mpg, in theory they only need to share the floor for 8mpg. That leaves 40mpg for Patterson, Bebe, & Carroll (small ball PF) at the remaining big spot. If for those 8mpg we have three players who can provide spacing (eg. Lowry, Powell, Carroll, assuming Ross is gone), then that works pretty well, no?

Is that reasonable, or am I trying way too much roster gymnastics to squeeze an extremely likeable but ultimately poor fit (biyombo) onto our roster? Are there simpler solutions (eg finding the "next Biyombo)?

Also, what do you think is a reasonable expected return for Ross if we try to salary dump him to a non-cap team with no returning salary? A low 1st round pick? Two 2nd rounders? Or will we need to sweeten the pot since we'll be lacking leverage?

Edit: Also, many argue that $13-17mil is too much to pay for a backup C, but let's not forget that injuries happen. Biz was our starting C for a substantial part of this season. Sure it's a luxury, but also a damn good insurance policy.

[DanH]

Well, if JV plays 32mpg, and Biyombo plays 24mpg, in theory they only need to share the floor for 8mpg. That leaves 40mpg for Patterson, Bebe, & Carroll (small ball PF) at the remaining big spot. If for those 8mpg we have three players who can provide spacing (eg. Lowry, Powell, Carroll, assuming Ross is gone), then that works pretty well, no?

Is that reasonable, or am I trying way too much roster gymnastics to squeeze an extremely likeable but ultimately poor fit (biyombo) onto our roster? Are there simpler solutions (eg finding the "next Biyombo)?

Also, what do you think is a reasonable expected return for Ross if we try to salary dump him to a non-cap team with no returning salary? A low 1st round pick? Two 2nd rounders? Or will we need to sweeten the pot since we'll be lacking leverage?

Edit: Also, many argue that $13-17mil is too much to pay for a backup C, but let's not forget that injuries happen. Biz was our starting C for a substantial part of this season. Sure it's a luxury, but also a damn good insurance policy.

I'm all for it if they can make those 8 minutes (I've got it pegged as 10 minutes and Biz playing 26) work. Probably means lineups with Carroll, Powell and Lowry on the perimeter to get enough shooting on the floor. And I've got whoever we draft at 9 (hopefully Chriss) playing a few minutes a game to fill in the rest of the PF minutes along with small ball Carroll.

Still, 17M is too much, but if we move Ross we can make an offer of 13-15M per year (depending on if we keep de Colo's rights or not). Which is more reasonable IF we can get PF minutes from him as well as backup C minutes and C injury insurance.

As for dumping Ross, who knows? If you do it early (like at the draft) you might get a future pick for him. If you wait for free agency (and rumours of an agreement with Biz to leak out) you might end up shedding assets instead if teams smell blood.

[DanH]

I try not to pimp my own stuff very much, but I've got a big salary prep piece for the upcoming draft and free agency up right now that I think is worth a read (note: I may be biased in this matter).

http://www.raptorshq.com/2016/6/1/11...p-update-draft

For those who prefer not to click to read the excess verbage, here are the raw numbers for at the draft:

DeMarre Carroll $13,600,000
Kyle Lowry $12,000,000
DeMar DeRozan $10,050,000
Cory Joseph $7,000,000
Patrick Patterson $6,268,675
Jonas Valanciunas $4,660,482
Terrence Ross $3,553,917
Luis Scola $2,900,000
Bismack Biyombo $2,814,000
James Johnson $2,500,000
Lucas Nogueira $1,842,000
Bruno Caboclo $1,524,000
Delon Wright $1,509,360
Norman Powell $650,000
Jason Thompson $245,177
Ronald Roberts $75,000
Axel Toupane $25,000
Michale Kyser $25,000
Shannon Scott $25,000
Nando de Colo $1,900,000

Total committed salary: $73,169,511

Salary Cap: $70,000,000
Luxury Tax: $84,740,000
Tax Apron (Hard Cap): $88,740,000

And this summer:

Jonas Valanciunas $14,382,024
DeMarre Carroll $14,200,000
Kyle Lowry $12,000,000
Terrence Ross $10,000,000
Cory Joseph $7,315,000
Patrick Patterson $6,050,000
Lucas Nogueira $1,921,320
Bruno Caboclo $1,589,640
Delon Wright $1,577,280
Norman Powell $874,636

Cap projection: $92,000,000
Salary committed: $71M
With draft picks: $73.2M

And cap holds:

DeMar DeRozan $15,225,000
Luis Scola $3,480,000
Bismack Biyombo $3,376,800
James Johnson $3,250,000
Nando de Colo $1,900,000
Jason Thompson $1,136,731

[Gambino]

Thanks for that post mate, how do the bird years work with De Colo? He was on our team in 2013-14 and the Spurs in 2012-13 and he was traded to us. So does he have 2 bird years or do these past two years where we've had his rights but he's been outside the NBA count? Haven't been able to find information on that in the CBA FAQ.

[DanH]

Thanks for that post mate, how do the bird years work with De Colo? He was on our team in 2013-14 and the Spurs in 2012-13 and he was traded to us. So does he have 2 bird years or do these past two years where we've had his rights but he's been outside the NBA count? Haven't been able to find information on that in the CBA FAQ.

He has two Bird years from the two years he played in the NBA - you don't lose your rights when you are traded (except sometimes if you are on a one year deal). And the Raptors have managed to keep de Colo's rights by not renouncing his cap hold over the past couple years.

[Gambino]

He has two Bird years from the two years he played in the NBA - you don't lose your rights when you are traded (except sometimes if you are on a one year deal). And the Raptors have managed to keep de Colo's rights by not renouncing his cap hold over the past couple years.

That's not what I asked really.

I know he keeps his 2 bird years from SAS and being traded to us. I'm wondering if these past two years where we've kept his rights count as an additional two years. So does he have 2 bird years or 4?

[DanH]

That's not what I asked really.

I know he keeps his 2 bird years from SAS and being traded to us. I'm wondering if these past two years where we've kept his rights count as an additional two years. So does he have 2 bird years or 4?

That's what I answered - he has two Bird years from the two years he actually played. No, he does not get more years by not playing.

[Mess]

That's what I answered - he has two Bird years from the two years he actually played. No, he does not get more years by not playing.

What about his Angry Bird rights? Where most people forget about you for a few years and then all of a sudden you show up in public again and people would be like "Oh yeah...that guy." It sounds like he still has that going for him.