Raptors Salary Cap Situation (and planning for the future)

[mcHAPPY]

Yeah I expect that to happen. But it doesn't change a lot. Even renouncing DD it wouldn't put us at max cap space.

Masai and Bobby Webster have more tricks than Penn and Teller.

Trying to determine what they are going to do is a bigger exercise in futility than attempting to be objective in the DeRozan thread.

We shall see what unfolds.

[JWash]

Patterson will be 2016 Vasquez, IMO.

I.e. Guy moved for draft picks and cap space.

Yeah I expect that to happen. But it doesn't change a lot. Even renouncing DD it wouldn't put us at max cap space.

[mcHAPPY]

Patterson will be 2016 Vasquez, IMO.

I.e. Guy moved for draft picks and cap space.

[JWash]

So to offer a 7-9 max with DD re-signed for ~20M per in 2017 (while retaining Lowry's cap hold). We'd need to move Carroll and Ross basically.

Or you could simply just not have re-signed DD in 2016. Keep Lowry's cap hold on the books and clear out just Ross (which would give you about enough room for the 10+ max as well) or maybe a few prospects instead. Although in that scenario it likely imo becomes tougher to make pitches to free agents because you have no proven all-star players locked into contracts. And if you had signed someone in 2016 to remedy the loss of DeRozan to more than a 1 year deal, then Carroll would still need to be shipped.

Interesting. This kind of reads to me as us being sort of fucked but I don't want to read it that way lol.

[DanH]

2016 and 2017

2016/17:

Jonas Valanciunas $14,382,024
DeMarre Carroll $14,200,000
Kyle Lowry $12,000,000
Terrence Ross $10,000,000
Cory Joseph $7,315,000
Patrick Patterson $6,050,000
Lucas Nogueira (BeBe) $1,921,320
Bruno Caboclo $1,589,640
Delon Wright $1,577,280
Norman Powell $874,636

Cap holds:

DeMar DeRozan $15,075,000 (assuming he opts out of his player option)
Luis Scola $3,480,000
James Johnson $4,750,000
Bismack Biyombo $3,376,800 (assuming he opts out of his player option)
Nando de Colo $1,901,900 (cap hold; $1,828,750 QO)
TOR 2016 1st round pick $1,301,900 (assumed 20th pick)
NYK 2016 1st round pick $2,140,500 (assumed 10th pick)

Above roster, if all free agents are let go: $73,895,771

This equates to 15.2M in cap room. The 7-9 year vet max is 25.1M.

2017/18:

Jonas Valanciunas $15,460,675
DeMarre Carroll $14,800,000
Terrence Ross $10,500,000
Cory Joseph $7,630,000
Lucas Nogueira (BeBe) $2,947,305
Bruno Caboclo $2,451,225
Delon Wright $1,645,200
Norman Powell $1,014,746 (unguaranteed)
TOR 2016 1st round pick $1,632,480 (assumed 20th pick)
NYK 2016 1st round pick $2,684,160 (assumed 10th pick)

Cap holds:

Kyle Lowry $18,000,000 (if he opts out)
Patrick Patterson $9,075,000
TOR 2017 1st round pick $1,347,400 (assumed 20th pick)
LAC 2017 1st round pick $1,098,700 (assumed 25th pick)

Above roster, if all free agents are let go: $63,211,891

This equates to 44.8M in cap room, with three spots to fill. The 7-9 year vet max is 30.5M, the 10+ year max is 35.6M.

Any salary added in 2016 that will extend into 2017 gets taken away from that cap room. Sign DD to a 20M flat deal, that 44.8M drops to 24.8M, less than the RFA max. Sign him to an even bigger deal and it obviously drops even lower.

And that assumes Lowry walks, and Patterson, and anyone else signed in summer 2016 is only for a year.

Obviously trades could, and probably should, happen between now and then, and that could free up (or tie up) salary in various ways.

[DanH]

So if we were to sign Durant first, we could then go over the cap to resign DD and our draft picks?

Just like you thought of that loophole, so did the writers of the CBA. So for any players you have the rights to, including draft picks, there is a cap hold (or dummy salary) that sits on your payroll to prevent you from doing just that. So DeMar counts as a 15M dollar contract that uses up our cap space this summer until we sign him. You can clear the cap of that cap hold by renouncing your rights to a player - at that point DD's 15M cap hold would disappear, and we could use the cap space to sign another team's free agent. But then we lose the ability to go over the cap to sign DeMar.

[raptors999]

So if we were to sign Durant first, we could then go over the cap to resign DD and our draft picks?

Think they need to trade salaries out or renounce Demar to get enough space for Durant @ Max

[oseebhai]

Yes, they can go over the cap, but you need cap space to sign free agents. So they cannot go over the cap to sign Durant. They can go over the cap to keep their own free agents, sign draft picks, and make somewhat lopsided trades.

So if we were to sign Durant first, we could then go over the cap to resign DD and our draft picks?

[DanH]

Excuse my cap knowledge noobness, but can't the raps go over the cap a touch? So what if there's a tax, you have a serious chance of winning a NBA championship, and acquire a legit superstar.

I'm just going to sit here imagining a lineup of Lowry, DD, KD, Carroll, & JV. With Biyombo, PP, Scola, & Cory still in the picture.

Yes, they can go over the cap, but you need cap space to sign free agents. So they cannot go over the cap to sign Durant. They can go over the cap to keep their own free agents, sign draft picks, and make somewhat lopsided trades.

[raptors999]

Excuse my cap knowledge noobness, but can't the raps go over the cap a touch? So what if there's a tax, you have a serious chance of winning a NBA championship, and acquire a legit superstar.

I'm just going to sit here imagining a lineup of Lowry, DD, KD, Carroll, & JV. With Biyombo, PP, Scola, & Cory still in the picture.

Can trade for more salary but its limited. Can't just decide to go into the luxury unless it's your own players with Bird rights

[oseebhai]

Excuse my cap knowledge noobness, but can't the raps go over the cap a touch? So what if there's a tax, you have a serious chance of winning a NBA championship, and acquire a legit superstar.

I'm just going to sit here imagining a lineup of Lowry, DD, KD, Carroll, & JV. With Biyombo, PP, Scola, & Cory still in the picture.

[DanH]

For reference:

DeRozan's max if he signs in Toronto: 25.1M, 27.0M, 28.9M, 30.8M, 32.7M -> 144.6M over 5 years, 28.9M per year.
DeRozan's max if he signs elsewhere: 25.1M, 26.3M, 27.4M, 28.5M -> 107.4M over 4 years, 26.8M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 22M: 22.0M, 23.0M, 24.0M, 25.0M -> 93.9M over 4 years, 23.5M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 20M: 20.0M, 20.9M, 21.8M, 22.7M -> 85.4M over 4 years, 21.4M per year.
DeRozan signing a 4 year deal starting at 15M: 15.0M, 15.7M, 16.4M, 17.0M -> 64.1M over 4 years, 16.0M per year.

[Snooch]

KD is an aspiration, not going to happen, it would turn the team into OKC without the talent base. JV is not the panacea to your problems, Bruno, please nice kid everyone wants him to do well, he is now 2 years from 1 year. He has talent but not enough. BEBE is a backup to JV at best.
KL for one season and he is jumping and you dont have DD to score like James Hardin did when KD and Russell were playing together, so what do you have a group of lonely fans who talking stuff, that is not viable.
Will we call the team KD and his Merry Raptors, because that is what the team looks like.
Oh yeah, we hope we get Jamal Murray, so as a rookie he melds right away with KD , because than we dont have KL, DD, PpAT, I think if that happens, we will have what the KNICKS has with Bernard King near the end of his career. A talented player who could not lead his TEAM to the promise land.

we would have KL - Allstar pg who will fit well off ball with KD
we would have DC - one of the best wings (realistically) to play alongside of KD in the league imo
We would have JV
We would have Depth
We would have assets
we would have future capspace felxibility

[Snooch]

planetmars and Axel did great job breaking down the whole "how to sign KD/max free agent". I think based on posts below, if given choice to gut team to keep DeMar or just renounce him and sign KD in cap space, parting ways with DD is the best option.









So with that out of the way, lets make the assumption KD signs in 2016 with a big selling point being max room again in 2017. How can that happen? Who, from current core, would need to go? Lowry? Patterson? BRUNO!?!??! NO! Not BRUNO!


Players salary for 2017-2018:

KD - $26.3M
Carroll - $14.8M
JV - $15.5M
Joseph - $7.6M
Bebe - $2.9M
Bruno - $2.5M
Wright - $1.6M
2016 NY/DEN - $2.9M (7th)
2016 Raps - $1.3M (20th)

Total guaranteed - $75.4

Players with options or expiring:

Lowry - $12M player option or $18M cap hold
PP - $9.1M cap hold
Powell - $1M non-guaranteed


With the salary cap around $108M, a max contract is going to about $30M.

Add a max contract on to $75.4M and we are looking at $105M with about $3M left in cap space which would account for cap holds and could pick up Powell.

So you could sign a max contract but lose Lowry and PP. It will be interesting to see what happens with that Knicks/Nuggets pick. If they draft, say, Jamal Murray, is losing Lowry a big deal? What if they draft a dominant PF?


However, IF, and it is a big IF, Lowry opted in to his contract, that would put Raptors at $87.4M. Hypothetically if the Raptors had traded their OWN 2016 pick, that takes down to $86.1M leaving Raptors $21.9M to offer. If the free agent signed a 2 year deal with player option for 3rd, they would be able to sign for 130%, which would take up to just shy of max at $28.5M.


But that is too much risk and faith for most of the players involved. Odds are very unlikely any of that transpires... and very unlikely means non-existent. But with Masai and KD's connections to Ibaka, maybe, just maybe..... nah.

I guess most likely outcome if looking to sign a max contract again in 2017 is Lowry and Patterson will be gone which explains current depth with Joseph and Wright.


Interesting times.

This was likely a gigantic waste of my time but always better to waste time on RR than elsewhere.

if we sign KD to a 26 million dollar deal, I doubt we go after anyone for more than KDs salary, as we would have to assume that a guy like Ibaka would welcome playing with his play with KD again.

So you are probably looking at adding a secondary guy at 22-25 million range.

So you are msot likely looking at the removal of either Lowry or Joseph(depending on who performs) and either a new contract at less than caphold for Ppat or byebye ppat.

I think in 2017 (provided we get KD) we see some new strutured contracts for either Lowry or Ppat.

[mcHAPPY]

KD is an aspiration, not going to happen, it would turn the team into OKC without the talent base. JV is not the panacea to your problems, Bruno, please nice kid everyone wants him to do well, he is now 2 years from 1 year. He has talent but not enough. BEBE is a backup to JV at best.
KL for one season and he is jumping and you dont have DD to score like James Hardin did when KD and Russell were playing together, so what do you have a group of lonely fans who talking stuff, that is not viable.
Will we call the team KD and his Merry Raptors, because that is what the team looks like.
Oh yeah, we hope we get Jamal Murray, so as a rookie he melds right away with KD , because than we dont have KL, DD, PpAT, I think if that happens, we will have what the KNICKS has with Bernard King near the end of his career. A talented player who could not lead his TEAM to the promise land.

You are not a dreamer.

Go back to Miami!