Game #51: Indiana Pacers 118 - Toronto Raptors 119

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

But I've been told 0 points is OK from some players and other parts of their game will fall apart if they contribute a few points lol

Someone gotta slap some sence into him..wake up, I'm very disappointed..if I'm coach nurse I sit him out, dont think his been working hard enough. I dont know anymore, his got the talent and body, but does he want it.

[S.R.]

I don't know what you guys are on about with OG, you want every prospect to be Pascal? You'll be disappointed.

OG is improving. Last year he was dealing with injuries and coming off the bench (playing vs. bench talent). This year he's a starter (playing vs. starting talent) and getting more minutes. That's a major shift, going from bench to starting and/or seeing a career high in mpg comes with an adjustment period (or an efficiency dip) for all kinds of young players.

That said, you can take per game numbers or per 100 or per 36 rates (whatever you like) and OG's got significant improvement over last season in:
- Rebounding and assists
- His 3P% recovered after a down year last year
- Defensive advanced stats are up, some significantly - DWS, DBPM, DRTG
- Other advanced stats are up, some significantly - WS, WS/48, VORP

Other context stats:
- He's doing less standing in the corners and shooting 3's, the team has him taking more 2PA and fewer field goals overall are assisted (some of that by design, they've got him taking the ball off the dribble more, some of it probably him getting run off the line more). A.k.a. his rookie year offence was easier.
- He's improving almost everywhere, either slightly (over his rookie season) or significantly (over last year's injury season), but again he's producing in more minutes, tougher minutes, and with a league that knows him (they don't leave you alone in the corners to shoot 45% on 3's forever)

And end of the day, he's a guy they're playing less than 30 minutes a game to play great defense across 4 positions, give you 10/5/2/1/1, and shoot a good percentage on 3's.

And he's 22 and playing for $2.2m this year and $3.8m next year.

It's 2020 in the NBA, you are trying to get guys like OG on your roster, not trade them away.

I've never understood fans just arbitrarily running out of patience with their own young guys while they're still developing, says a lot more about expectations than production imho. It really doesn't matter if 2 years ago you thought OG would be the next Andre Igoudala, 2 years later he's still good and still improving and there's no reason to trade him (unless it's for Kawhi 2.0).

[G__Deane]

I haven't lost faith in OG whatsoever but have lost some patience. Injuries, an off year and age all play into that need for patience, agreed.

But quoting % of better results over a truly disastrous year last season is kinda cherry picking, don't you think? Bottom line for may fans is (aside from age and circumstance), he's a bit disappointing AGAIN this year. It wasn't long ago that he was being pointed to as a main reason for significant free agents to consider signing here. Pascal, FVV and OG were the core going forward.

He's just a piece with unrealized potential for now. I have seen him make a few more aggressive moves on the floor lately (still bad handles lol) but he's gotta figure it out or I can't see starting him for now.

[Shredder]

I know we've beat it to death, but if we still had Casey last night would've been a loss. He would have kept everyone in their predetermined roles, and when the Pacer's bigs were killing us, he would have just kept doing the same thing. Nurse is a hellova coach. He deserved the coach of the month he got for January. If we keep this up, he could(should) get coach of the year.

[Zak24gege]

The Raptors don't get any respect whatsoever in this country. Raptors just won 12 straight and Sportsnet is talking about 1st round exit Leafs team(might not even make the playoffs) trading for a backup goalie lol.

That bugged me too. TSN just kept running the Jack, Sam & Leo clip every half hour otherwise Leafs and hockey (and I'm a Leaf fan).

[Zak24gege]

I found this video of you the other day

Now that is funny, love it!

[Zak24gege]

I haven't lost faith in OG whatsoever but have lost some patience. Injuries, an off year and age all play into that need for patience, agreed. But quoting % of better results over a truly disastrous year last season is kinda cherry picking, don't you think? Bottom line for may fans is (aside from age and circumstance), he's a bit disappointing AGAIN this year. It wasn't long ago that he was being pointed to as a main reason for significant free agents to consider signing here. Pascal, FVV and OG were the core going forward.

He's just a piece with unrealized potential for now. I have seen him make a few more aggressive moves on the floor lately (still bad handles lol) but he's gotta figure it out or I can't see starting him for now.

It seems the harder he tries to create for himself, the less successful the result. How often has an OG ISO move ended with one or more of the following:

1. OG on his ass?
2. a live ball turnover?
3. an opponent fast break resulting in a 3?

OK, seriously now. It's pretty obvious at this point in his development, his handle and coordination are not at a point where he can routinely go ISO to take advantage of mismatches. With Nurse, pushing the envelope is encouraged and to OG's credit, he has tried to do things that may not be within his comfort zone. Eventually he will figure out his 'game' and with that what kind of player he will ultimately become.

[Zak24gege]

But I've been told 0 points is OK from some players and other parts of their game will fall apart if they contribute a few points lol

Yes I too worry about regression because of multi-stat inflation...lol.

[S.R.]

It seems the harder he tries to create for himself, the less successful the result. How often has an OG ISO move ended with one or more of the following:

1. OG on his ass?
2. a live ball turnover?
3. an opponent fast break resulting in a 3?

OK, seriously now. It's pretty obvious at this point in his development, his handle and coordination are not at a point where he can routinely go ISO to take advantage of mismatches. With Nurse, pushing the envelope is encouraged and to OG's credit, he has tried to do things that may not be within his comfort zone. Eventually he will figure out his 'game' and with that what kind of player he will ultimately become.

Yes, OG's iso stats are bad. At this point I just trust the Raptors development plan. The track record speaks for itself and we've seen Siakam, Fred, and even Norm develop consistency and efficiency in areas that were not that way to begin with.

[G__Deane]

I know we've beat it to death, but if we still had Casey last night would've been a loss. He would have kept everyone in their predetermined roles, and when the Pacer's bigs were killing us, he would have just kept doing the same thing. Nurse is a hellova coach. He deserved the coach of the month he got for January. If we keep this up, he could(should) get coach of the year.

NBA will make sure Rivers gets it for just trotting Kawhi and PG and the 6th man of the year out. And load managing .....

[G__Deane]

Yes, OG's iso stats are bad. At this point I just trust the Raptors development plan. The track record speaks for itself and we've seen Siakam, Fred, and even Norm develop consistency and efficiency in areas that were not that way to begin with.

[Dr Hannibal Lecter]

Yes, OG's iso stats are bad. At this point I just trust the Raptors development plan. The track record speaks for itself and we've seen Siakam, Fred, and even Norm develop consistency and efficiency in areas that were not that way to begin with.

I know..but u gotta give him some touches, hopefully he turns it around.

[DanH]

People really have to find something (insane) to worry about in the midst of a 12 game win streak, huh? OG is really good and will be even better and your weirdly high expectations for a young primarily defensive player who is being asked to expand his game a bit don’t change the fact that he’s one of the better players on the team at the age of 22.

[G__Deane]

People really have to find something (insane) to worry about in the midst of a 12 game win streak, huh? OG is really good and will be even better and your weirdly high expectations for a young primarily defensive player who is being asked to expand his game a bit don’t change the fact that he’s one of the better players on the team at the age of 22.

I'm prepared to believe that, but based on what criteria?
I can't see how he's "better" than Siakam, Kyle, FVV, Gasol, Serge or recent Powell. I'd take Davis over him right now based on short spurt impacts. And of course McCaw ....

[golden]

I'm prepared to believe that, but based on what criteria?
I can't see how he's "better" than Siakam, Kyle, FVV, Gasol, Serge or recent Powell. I'd take Davis over him right now based on short spurt impacts. And of course McCaw ....

If the criteria is PIPM, then OG has about the same overall impact as Powell, but Norm has been trending up sharply while OG has been fading. OG would be our 2nd best defender tied with Pascal, after Gasol.