GAME #64 Toronto Raptors vs Utah Jazz - Monday March 9 2020, 9:00 PM ET

[planetmars]

Anyone a little worried about Terence? He's been pretty bad since the Milwaukee game. -15 last night in 6 minutes. Missed his only 3, and turned the ball over pretty badly.

Needed him as well since Norm got hurt and we were on a second game of the back to back in Utah of all places. Is it just him hitting the rookie wall? Hope his confidence hasn't taken a beating. His minutes have really been reduced the last two games (not surprisingly).

I remember when he used to shoot a 3 and it would just be automatic.

[MixxAOR]

Anyone a little worried about Terence? He's been pretty bad since the Milwaukee game. -15 last night in 6 minutes. Missed his only 3, and turned the ball over pretty badly.

Needed him as well since Norm got hurt and we were on a second game of the back to back in Utah of all places. Is it just him hitting the rookie wall? Hope his confidence hasn't taken a beating. His minutes have really been reduced the last two games (not surprisingly).

I remember when he used to shoot a 3 and it would just be automatic.

I'm worried if you have to rely on him heavy. Can't expect a rookie to be consistent.

[Zak24gege]

Leo was on TSN this morning saying that Utah fans are worse than Philly
-swearing, talking trash with broadcasters, Jack should hit them with his cane lol

These were the same fans who went after Russell Westbrook. Even senior citizens, like Jack are targets in Utah.

[DanH]

Anyone a little worried about Terence? He's been pretty bad since the Milwaukee game. -15 last night in 6 minutes. Missed his only 3, and turned the ball over pretty badly.

Needed him as well since Norm got hurt and we were on a second game of the back to back in Utah of all places. Is it just him hitting the rookie wall? Hope his confidence hasn't taken a beating. His minutes have really been reduced the last two games (not surprisingly).

I remember when he used to shoot a 3 and it would just be automatic.

I don't think it's that so much as the lineups we are using him in. Too much McCaw and RHJ at the same time killing spacing, no Serge or Powell to provide the backbone for the bench, not using a starter to bolster the bench looks (and when they do that starter has no space to operate)... All of that is leaving Davis to try to create offence with no space and no targets for passes. He's a great role player already (which is awesome for an undrafted guy) if he's used in his role. He's got a long way to go to be a ball handler, let alone the primary ball handler, in lineups that need him to do heavy lifting. Look at how long Fred took to make the progress he's made, and he still struggles in that expanded role.

His defence is spotty but has been so all year (I mean, he's a rookie and he's no OG), you can live with that against opposing benches so long as you are scoring a bit, but of late he's not been in lineups that are capable of scoring, like, at all. All problems are solved as we get healthy and you don't need 4 guys who are all fighting for one playoff rotation spot on the floor at once.

[Puffer]

I don't think it's that so much as the lineups we are using him in. Too much McCaw and RHJ at the same time killing spacing, no Serge or Powell to provide the backbone for the bench, not using a starter to bolster the bench looks (and when they do that starter has no space to operate)... All of that is leaving Davis to try to create offence with no space and no targets for passes. He's a great role player already (which is awesome for an undrafted guy) if he's used in his role. He's got a long way to go to be a ball handler, let alone the primary ball handler, in lineups that need him to do heavy lifting. Look at how long Fred took to make the progress he's made, and he still struggles in that expanded role.

His defence is spotty but has been so all year (I mean, he's a rookie and he's no OG), you can live with that against opposing benches so long as you are scoring a bit, but of late he's not been in lineups that are capable of scoring, like, at all. All problems are solved as we get healthy and you don't need 4 guys who are all fighting for one playoff rotation spot on the floor at once.

One thing I really appreciate about your posts Dan, is your ability to step back and see things in context. Watching Davis the last few games, all I see is a guy making stupid mistakes. You see him operating in an environment that isn't the least bit accomodating to him, and struggling hard, against all odds, to make something happen which inevitably leads to mistakes of both omission and commission. I forget that he's an undrafted rookie who managed to play in an almost perfect circumstance, earlier in the year, when conditions were optimum for him

Nurse keeps throwing him out there, checking to see if he has learned enough to be playable in a less than optimum environment. I am sure Terrence will find a way to be a positive contributor again when the team gets a little healthier, and when he has put in more time learning his craft.

[Zak24gege]

Anyone a little worried about Terence? He's been pretty bad since the Milwaukee game. -15 last night in 6 minutes. Missed his only 3, and turned the ball over pretty badly.

Needed him as well since Norm got hurt and we were on a second game of the back to back in Utah of all places. Is it just him hitting the rookie wall? Hope his confidence hasn't taken a beating. His minutes have really been reduced the last two games (not surprisingly).

I remember when he used to shoot a 3 and it would just be automatic.

Here's my 2c worth regarding TD-II:

Adjusting to the NBA game can be a difficult process for a rookie. You're now in an environment with minimal team practises and sporadic playing time. Add in the mental aspect that goes with knowing you are not playing well and understandably you would want to positively impact a game. This can lead to attempting too much, too fast.

I also wonder about the football background and how differences in the basic nature of the two sports can lead to some of what we are observing with Terence. Football is a very scripted sport with specific plays and assignments. Once a play is called, everyone has their assignment with very little decision making except say during pass plays the QB picks who to pass to, however, there are say 3 options and the options follow scripted routes.

Basketball is very much a read and react game. Yes, both offence and defence has basic sets and plays, however, once the play is initiated, one's movements and decisions are influenced primarily by the positions and actions of others. There is more of a flow to basketball vs the start-stop nature of football. And all hell breaks loose on a live ball turnover and you have fast breaks and transition defence etc..

Terence was a football player who chose to play basketball, There is no denying his raw physical talent and athleticism. Where he seems to get into trouble is in the decision making / what to do type situations which maybe just a reflection of his football experience.

We don't have to look far to see how a little patience with a young player can pay big dividends. Norm Powell had some big games as a rookie, yet, took a couple of frustrating seasons to become the standout SG that just won EC POW honours. I'm confident the Raptors organization can also help Terence develop into a solid NBA SG type player.

[S.R.]

Davis has definitely made some of those rookie mistakes lately that drive a coach nuts. Hence the 6 minutes followed by riding the pine for the rest of the game.

But he's an undrafted rookie + it's all part of the learning experience, it's fine.

I still think Davis with a couple rookie mistakes is more helpful that Patrick I Got A Layup Once McCaw, but what do I know - I'm not the 2019/20 NBA Coach of the Year, that's Nick Nurse.

[The Great One]

Anyone a little worried about Terence? He's been pretty bad since the Milwaukee game. -15 last night in 6 minutes. Missed his only 3, and turned the ball over pretty badly.

Needed him as well since Norm got hurt and we were on a second game of the back to back in Utah of all places. Is it just him hitting the rookie wall? Hope his confidence hasn't taken a beating. His minutes have really been reduced the last two games (not surprisingly).

I remember when he used to shoot a 3 and it would just be automatic.

It's his defense. That's why he keeps getting benched in the 2nd half.

People here loves to overreact on McCaw but he was solid again defensively last night. Not saying he's Kawhi defensively but he's solid. And other than Lowry and VV, McCaw is the only reliable ball handler they have.

[RaptorsVictim]

Anyone a little worried about Terence? He's been pretty bad since the Milwaukee game. -15 last night in 6 minutes. Missed his only 3, and turned the ball over pretty badly.

Needed him as well since Norm got hurt and we were on a second game of the back to back in Utah of all places. Is it just him hitting the rookie wall? Hope his confidence hasn't taken a beating. His minutes have really been reduced the last two games (not surprisingly).

I remember when he used to shoot a 3 and it would just be automatic.

I am not worried at all, as Davis right now is looking for an identity. The guy has shown alot of talent and skills, but he is playing with a team that is so deep which prevents him from getting something close to 30 minutes per game to shape his game in the right way.
Look at OG it took him two seasons to shape his game based on his skill and talent, but that happend when he started and the right amount of minutes.
Davis wants to do so much in very short minutes.

[G__Deane]

Waiting til Saturday to hand Casey another beatdown .... *sigh*
Gasol will play, OG will have fully healed up, hopefully Pow-Pow Powell is ready to go, looking for updates in the next day or two

[golden]

I am not worried at all, as Davis right now is looking for an identity. The guy has shown alot of talent and skills, but he is playing with a team that is so deep which prevents him from getting something close to 30 minutes per game to shape his game in the right way.
Look at OG it took him two seasons to shape his game based on his skill and talent, but that happend when he started and the right amount of minutes.
Davis wants to do so much in very short minutes.

And that's the double standard: McCaw has an unlimited green light to do nothing in long minutes, game after game. And that "nothing" shows up as a negative, 9 times out of ten... with heaping praise for the 1 out of 10. That's un-conditional love. Whereas every other bench player has a gun to their head with a nano-metre sized leash. It's no wonder Davis, Boucher, Thomas, RHJ, etc.... can't play freely and let the game come to them.

[LJ2]

And that's the double standard: McCaw has an unlimited green light to do nothing in long minutes, game after game. And that "nothing" shows up as a negative, 9 times out of ten... with heaping praise for the 1 out of 10. That's un-conditional love. Whereas every other bench player has a gun to their head with a nano-metre sized leash. It's no wonder Davis, Boucher, Thomas, RHJ, etc.... can't play freely and let the game come to them.

There has go to be some sort of stat that reflects McCaw is a much better defender than TD. If there is one thing that stands about Terrence in comparison to other players drafted by the Raptors, it's that his defensive potential isn't visible like it was with Norm, Pascal, FVV, OG, Delon, Jacob etc.. He's not the typical pick up for this team. But hey, FVV averaged a whopping 8 minutes in his rookie season and 20 mins in his sophmore year. TD is already averaging 17 mins this year.

The thing I find odd is that the Raptors aren't putting TD through the 905 like they did with all of their other rookies. Either they feel his game is too far ahead already, they need him to be available at all times or the less popular idea would be they don't see a player they want to invest in developing.

[danno]

There has go to be some sort of stat that reflects McCaw is a much better defender than TD. If there is one thing that stands about Terrence in comparison to other players drafted by the Raptors, it's that his defensive potential isn't visible like it was with Norm, Pascal, FVV, OG, Delon, Jacob etc.. He's not the typical pick up for this team. But hey, FVV averaged a whopping 8 minutes in his rookie season and 20 mins in his sophmore year. TD is already averaging 17 mins this year.

The thing I find odd is that the Raptors aren't putting TD through the 905 like they did with all of their other rookies. Either they feel his game is too far ahead already, they need him to be available at all times or the less popular idea would be they don't see a player they want to invest in developing.

I always check the Advanced stats Defensive Ratings after every game. McCaw generally scores highly by this measure. Davis is really bad or really good, not consistent.

[S.R.]

There has go to be some sort of stat that reflects McCaw is a much better defender than TD. If there is one thing that stands about Terrence in comparison to other players drafted by the Raptors, it's that his defensive potential isn't visible like it was with Norm, Pascal, FVV, OG, Delon, Jacob etc.. He's not the typical pick up for this team. But hey, FVV averaged a whopping 8 minutes in his rookie season and 20 mins in his sophmore year. TD is already averaging 17 mins this year.

The thing I find odd is that the Raptors aren't putting TD through the 905 like they did with all of their other rookies. Either they feel his game is too far ahead already, they need him to be available at all times or the less popular idea would be they don't see a player they want to invest in developing.

I think they've needed him on the bench with all the injuries. A full roster and maybe he would get some 905 time - though the SG spot is thin.

[DanH]

There has go to be some sort of stat that reflects McCaw is a much better defender than TD. If there is one thing that stands about Terrence in comparison to other players drafted by the Raptors, it's that his defensive potential isn't visible like it was with Norm, Pascal, FVV, OG, Delon, Jacob etc.. He's not the typical pick up for this team. But hey, FVV averaged a whopping 8 minutes in his rookie season and 20 mins in his sophmore year. TD is already averaging 17 mins this year.

The thing I find odd is that the Raptors aren't putting TD through the 905 like they did with all of their other rookies. Either they feel his game is too far ahead already, they need him to be available at all times or the less popular idea would be they don't see a player they want to invest in developing.

Impact stats like PIPM are the best shot we have at quantifying defence right now, though obviously no defensive stat is perfect.

Still, by PIPM McCaw is roughly an average defender (-0.01), ranking higher than Powell (-0.18) and Davis (-0.19) but the difference between those numbers is exceedingly small. They are all roughly equivalent defenders, won't kill you but not a strength, and all graded primarily against bench opposition, though Powell and McCaw both have at least some starter opposition in their sample, even if both players are hidden somewhat in those lineups as OG tends to take the best wing opponent. Personally I despise the way McCaw plays defence but it hasn't on balance shown up as a significant negative.

It's on offence that impact stats hate McCaw, with obvious good reason.