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  • Puffer wrote: View Post

    I've gotta agree with this, being one of the "pops" in the at risk group. Another factor beyond simple age is how many of those over sixty also suffered from obesity, type 2 diabetes, were smokers, did not exercise and/or had other issues that were the result of personal choices. I wonder what the fatality rate is in the over sixty group that eat sensibly, had quit smoking before 40, exercised, etc. Personal lifestyle choices are important.
    Nah puff, if you're just over 60+, you're not in the "pops" group I'm referring to. You'd be more like their child. ~70% of all fatalities occur in the 80+ group. The other 30% are indeed skewed towards the 60+, but I can almost guarantee we're talking about the 60+ that have close to an 80+ physiology.

    I see this every week at my work. Ages 50-80 are the most variable group in terms of overall physical health. Someone under 50 will almost always have a pep in their step, and someone over 80 will almost always move a little slower and carefully. But between 50 & 80, is anyone's guess. I've seen 50 years olds walking with oxygen tanks, and 75+ yr olds that swim and jog. That's the window of time lifestyle choices will usually catch up to you.

    When I looked at the top 5 reasons for hospital admissions in Canada, I was surprised:

    1. Giving Birth (that one doesn't count, that's a happy hospital admission)
    2. COPD
    3. Myocardial Infarction (heart attack)
    4. Pneumonia
    5. Heart Failure

    I thought it'd be other things in the top 5. Things your hear about all the time like hip/knee surgeries, car accidents, diabetes complications, bypass surgeries, apendectomies etc.

    But no, it's COPD as the #1, and Pneumonia right there. Things related to the damn smokes. We have a whole generation in this country that in their youth never had the benefit of knowing what cigarettes really do to your health, and by the time they knew it, they were addicted. Those people are right in the 50-70 zone right now. Many quit, but many didn't, and they're the ones making the COPD/Pneumonia group.

    That is the the 60+ sub-cohort covid targets. Many are in-and-out of the hospital already with COPD, an are now being counted as covid if they happen to be positive. Detailed hospital data on this is very hard to find . It's in some kind of vault right now, but maybe one day it'll come out. When it does, I have a strong feeling this will be exposed as something that epidemiologically/statistically speaking, will have extremely littleimpact outside 80+ years olds (or 60+ with 80+ physiology).

    When some sound, retrospective statistical studies are made on this, people will wonder why the heck we did this to ourselves, to our livelihoods and to our families.

    Last edited by inthepaint; Thu May 21st, 2020, 06:43 PM.
    2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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    • inthepaint wrote: View Post

      Nah puff, if you're just over 60+, you're not in the "pops" group I'm referring to. You'd be more like their child. ~70% of all fatalities occur in the 80+ group. The other 30% are indeed skewed towards the 60+, but I can almost guarantee we're talking about the 60+ that have close to an 80+ physiology.

      I see this every week at my work. Ages 50-80 are the most variable group in terms of overall physical health. Someone under 50 will almost always have a pep in their step, and someone over 80 will almost always move a little slower and carefully. But between 50 & 80, is anyone's guess. I've seen 50 years olds walking with oxygen tanks, and 75+ yr olds that swim and jog. That's the window of time lifestyle choices will usually catch up to you.

      When I looked at the top 5 reasons for hospital admissions in Canada, I was surprised:

      1. Giving Birth (that one doesn't count, that's a happy hospital admission)
      2. COPD
      3. Myocardial Infarction (heart attack)
      4. Pneumonia
      5. Heart Failure

      I thought it'd be other things in the top 5. Things your hear about all the time like hip/knee surgeries, car accidents, diabetes complications, bypass surgeries, apendectomies etc.

      But no, it's COPD as the #1, and Pneumonia right there. Things related to the damn smokes. We have a whole generation in this country that in their youth never had the benefit of knowing what cigarettes really do to your health, and by the time they knew it, they were addicted. Those people are right in the 50-70 zone right now. Many quit, but many didn't, and they're the ones making the COPD/Pneumonia group.

      That is the the 60+ sub-cohort covid targets. Many are in-and-out of the hospital already with COPD, an are now being counted as covid if they happen to be positive. Detailed hospital data on this is very hard to find . It's in some kind of vault right now, but maybe one day it'll come out. When it does, I have a strong feeling this will be exposed as something that epidemiologically/statistically speaking, will have extremely littleimpact outside 80+ years olds (or 60+ with 80+ physiology).

      When some sound, retrospective statistical studies are made on this, people will wonder why the heck we did this to ourselves, to our livelihoods and to our families.
      I agree, but at the same time everyone saw Wuhan and Milan and had to make quick decisions on very little information and there was, justifiably, a whole lot of "we don't want that to happen here."

      Now more info is coming out and new decisions should be better informed be we appear to be in a bit of a fear-induced rut overall.
      "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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      • S.R. wrote: View Post

        I agree, but at the same time everyone saw Wuhan and Milan and had to make quick decisions on very little information and there was, justifiably, a whole lot of "we don't want that to happen here."

        Now more info is coming out and new decisions should be better informed be we appear to be in a bit of a fear-induced rut overall.
        Good point. As the science changes, the policy will change. 50 years ago the most brilliant physicians in the world smoked cigarettes and went to the beach without sunscreen. They weren't quacks or sheep. The game dun changed. 50 years ago the most brilliant basketball minds in the world didn't suggest shooting 40 3's a game. In a basketball analogy this is where Dan would say small sample bias. Hopefully we don't have more North American pandemics to worry about but as the science changes it's reasonable for the response to change.

        Milan was really scary. The spread was crazy and there was a soccer game where some reports indicate all 40,000 fans tested positive and went home and spread that shit. Now that we can digest the data maybe large crowds are a no go and we bubble our LTC facilities and the rest of us can go back to a new normal life. But 8 weeks ago things were very different.
        Last edited by Rudy Bargnani; Thu May 21st, 2020, 09:03 PM.

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        • Reports say that behind the scenes the League is telling teams to prepare for a July 15th start date. Play 5 games to get the 70 game threshold for T.V $ and let the final seeding shake out. then playoffs. Teams leave the bubble as eliminated or upon missing playoffs
          To be the champs you got to beat the champs

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          • Rudy Bargnani wrote: View Post

            Good point. As the science changes, the policy will change. 50 years ago the most brilliant physicians in the world smoked cigarettes and went to the beach without sunscreen. They weren't quacks or sheep. The game dun changed. 50 years ago the most brilliant basketball minds in the world didn't suggest shooting 40 3's a game. In a basketball analogy this is where Dan would say small sample bias. Hopefully we don't have more North American pandemics to worry about but as the science changes it's reasonable for the response to change.

            Milan was really scary. The spread was crazy and there was a soccer game where some reports indicate all 40,000 fans tested positive and went home and spread that shit. Now that we can digest the data maybe large crowds are a no go and we bubble our LTC facilities and the rest of us can go back to a new normal life. But 8 weeks ago things were very different.
            50 years ago, a parents’ job was to toughen up your kids to prepare them for the real world. Make them resilient and self sufficient. If you skinned your knee at school and came home crying to your mom, your dad would say.... do that again and I’ll give you something to cry about. Lol.

            Today, a parents’ job is to protect their kids against any and every conceivable bad thing that could ever happen to them... physically, socially, emotionally, financially, etc.... real or imagined.

            That ‘protect everybody from everything’ philosophy is mirrored with governments. The increasingly left leaning western governments nanny state and social engineering agendas have been beating our natural survival instincts and basic desire for self-sufficiency, resiliency and toughness out of our society for decades.
            Last edited by golden; Fri May 22nd, 2020, 07:42 AM.

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            • golden wrote: View Post

              50 years ago, a parents’ job was to toughen up your kids to prepare them for the real world. Make them resilient and self sufficient. If you skinned your knee at school and came home crying to your mom, your dad would say.... do that again and I’ll give you something to cry about. Lol.

              Today, a parents’ job is to protect their kids against any and every conceivable bad thing that could ever happen to them... physically, socially, emotionally, financially, etc.... real or imagined.

              That ‘protect everybody from everything’ philosophy is mirrored with governments. The increasingly left leaning western governments nanny state and social engineering agendas have been beating our natural survival instincts and basic desire for self-sufficiency, resiliency and toughness out of our society for decades.
              It is easier to be your kids friend, than it's parent.

              We also kept giving government more and more reasons to take people's kids away, unless they are being abused by an Indian, then it is bad to forcibly remove children from their homes, as it damages communities.

              Because of these socialist policies we have kids that beat their teachers, so we better add some socialism and pay teachers more, they are dealing with animals. Then the teachers got so comfortable their unions started going less work, because they aren't greedy and can only bleed us so much. So now we see we can do our teachers jobs with 2 hours of home school a day, and they get 80k with 4 months holidays for 10 hours of essential learning a week.

              Read about the gao kao, and then understand our grade 12s can't read anymore.
              Last edited by Miekenstien; Fri May 22nd, 2020, 08:13 AM.

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              • Miekenstien wrote: View Post

                It is easier to be your kids friend, than it's parent.

                We also kept giving government more and more reasons to take people's kids away, unless they are being abused by an Indian, then it is bad to forcibly remove children from their homes, as it damages communities.

                Because of these socialist policies we have kids that beat their teachers, so we better add some socialism and pay teachers more, they are dealing with animals. Then the teachers got so comfortable their unions started going less work, because they aren't greedy and can only bleed us so much. So now we see we can do our teachers jobs with 2 hours of home school a day, and they get 80k with 4 months holidays for 10 hours of essential learning a week.

                Read about the gao kao, and then understand our grade 12s can't read anymore.
                Preach on, brotha. It's even worse than you think, Miek. My son is 9 years old and in grade 4. Academics is already a lost cause for all the reasons you mentioned and more, but the social agenda even extends their tentacles into other areas like sports and a term I just learned about this year called "toxic masculinity".

                So at my son's school (a large GTA school board), they don't actually declare winners and losers in team sports, because if you actually lost a game, that would hurt your self-esteem and scar you for life. And then there's the sports, themselves. No real basketball or soccer, for example, just watered down versions to make everybody feel safe. And all sports are co-ed, because boys and girls are equal in every way. The piece de resistance was dodgeball... they cancelled DodgeBall because some girl got hit in the face and with a spongy ball and went home and cried to her parents. Dodge freakin' Ball is now a dangerous sport. I would laugh if I wasn't so mad.

                Fortunately for me, my son somehow realizes at an early age that all this stuff he's being taught is BS and he complains about how 'soft' his generation is, and the teachers for taking away all his fun. He knows instinctively that it's all wrong. It's no wonder North America can't compete against the rest of the world anymore..... kids are being taught that being competitive is morally bad from an early age, and there's no such thing as winners and losers. SMFH.

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                • golden wrote: View Post

                  Preach on, brotha. It's even worse than you think, Miek. My son is 9 years old and in grade 4. Academics is already a lost cause for all the reasons you mentioned and more, but the social agenda bleeds even extends it's tentacles into other areas like sports and a term I just learned about this year called "toxic masculinity".

                  So at my son's school (a large GTA school board), they don't actually declare winners and losers in team sports, because if you actually lost a game, that would hurt your self-esteem and scar you for life. And then there's the sports, themselves. No real basketball or soccer, for example, just watered down versions to make everybody feel safe. And all sports are co-ed, because boys and girls are equal in every way. The piece de resistance was dodgeball... they cancelled DodgeBall because some girl got hit in the face and with a spongy ball and went home and cried to her parents. Dodge freakin' Ball is now a dangerous sport. I would laugh if I wasn't so mad.

                  Fortunately for me, my son somehow realizes at an early age that all this stuff he's being taught is BS and he complains about how 'soft' his generation is, and the teachers for taking away all his fun. He knows instinctively that it's all wrong. It's no wonder North America can't compete against the rest of the world anymore..... kids are being taught that being competitive is morally bad from an early age, and there's no such thing as winners and losers. SMFH.
                  my kid got graded on how he argues for other's rights. got a k. wtf is that.

                  Comment


                  • Miekenstien wrote: View Post

                    my kid got graded on how he argues for other's rights. got a k. wtf is that.
                    WTF, basically sums up our education system. To say it's completely f*cked up would be an understatement. But the problem is the teacher's unions have a sh*t ton of money and votes, so they can effectively control the media AND the government. And where does their money come from? We.... the (stupid) People.

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                    • If this last page of discussion has taught me anything, I'm scared to have kids now and send them to public school.
                      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                      • Joe Ingles has said he doesn’t want to play if the NBA season resumes, as his wife is pregnant and one of his kids has a weakened immune system
                        The name's Bond, James Bond.

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                        • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                          If this last page of discussion has taught me anything, I'm scared to have kids now and send them to public school.
                          LOL. It depends where you are. Calgary has some pretty good options.

                          If you want to be scared of something, wait until your kids get into sports...… the commitment level is out of this world.

                          Comment


                          • golden wrote: View Post

                            50 years ago, a parents’ job was to toughen up your kids to prepare them for the real world. Make them resilient and self sufficient. If you skinned your knee at school and came home crying to your mom, your dad would say.... do that again and I’ll give you something to cry about. Lol.

                            Today, a parents’ job is to protect their kids against any and every conceivable bad thing that could ever happen to them... physically, socially, emotionally, financially, etc.... real or imagined.

                            That ‘protect everybody from everything’ philosophy is mirrored with governments. The increasingly left leaning western governments nanny state and social engineering agendas have been beating our natural survival instincts and basic desire for self-sufficiency, resiliency and toughness out of our society for decades.
                            Yep. We're "fat and sassy" now as a society. People in general (especially our youth and young adults), have become very ill-equipped to deal with adversity, risk, challenges, and even the concept of losing at something from time to time. Like you say, it starts very early, right in elementary school. Challenges, failure/loss and adversity are the very things that make us grow and allow us to lead a healthy life and raise a family if we chose to. That notion gave way to bubble-wrapping and coddling.

                            That's why we see such an explosion in anxiety and other mental health issues, and also a record number of people in their late 20's/early 30's in their parent's basement. People are just paralyzed if they don't have a security blanket of family, government, and signage telling them what to do.

                            This has been highlighted now in this pandemic. Governments now need to pivot the message from "hide in your homes" to "get out and live again", otherwise we'll hit another great depression, simple as that. It's gonna be tough though because they did such a good job in sensationalizing this and scaring the heck out of everyone, people are now petrified. Gotta start somewhere though.

                            2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                            • 007 wrote: View Post
                              Joe Ingles has said he doesn’t want to play if the NBA season resumes, as his wife is pregnant and one of his kids has a weakened immune system
                              This makes me ask the question : Does he feel that the nurses and doctors at the hospital who will deliver his child are less important than him and his family?

                              He gets paid a huge sum of money and for him to rightfully collect he should have to work with the employer. The cap is determined based on what they predict revenues will be. They can't earn those revenues unless Joe Ingles and others show up. It's a tough situation but I don't think he's gonna get much sympathy considering all the fans who are currently in the front line every day working while they have all their own personal struggles waiting at home, minus the millions in the bank.

                              He should be asked to choose between making a tough family sacrifice (work + self isolation) or making a tough financial sacrifice (no show + no salary).

                              That's all if this gets off the ground. No guarantee when you factor in all the supporting staff involved with the NBA and all those people coming in contact with the players.
                              Last edited by Apollo; Fri May 22nd, 2020, 12:53 PM.

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                              • KeonClark wrote: View Post
                                If this last page of discussion has taught me anything, I'm scared to have kids now and send them to public school.
                                Nah. The world needs more Keons.











                                ..... if for no other reason, than to serve as a warning to others.

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