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  • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

    And its a way for forgers and counterfeiters and other human flotsam to make a fortune or fuck over a whole bunch of countries.
    Not a good idea.
    As with almost any system, chicanery like that would be so rare as to not really cause a problem.

    The bigger concern, in my eyes, is the assumption that having had the virus will immunize you, which seems far from based in fact or research at this point in time.
    twitter.com/dhackett1565

    Comment


    • https://ca.nba.com/news/nba-shares-d...51jeqh0g6gn2ja

      Anyone know where I can find a link/copy of the actual handbook/plan??

      Could use some summer reading hahahhaa

      But can't find the handbook itself, anywhere online

      Comment


      • DanH wrote: View Post

        As with almost any system, chicanery like that would be so rare as to not really cause a problem.

        The bigger concern, in my eyes, is the assumption that having had the virus will immunize you, which seems far from based in fact or research at this point in time.
        I admire your belief that the world is largely empty of chicanery.
        Its hard to reconcile that with a world chock full of

        Identity theft.
        Insurance fraud.
        Passport forgery.
        Cyber theft..
        Etc
        Etc
        Etc.
        I just don't see why an opportunity such as an immunity passport would be left unexploited by the chicaner's amongst us..


        As for holding the notion that Covid19 is somehow exempt from the science of genetics on how your body's immune system generates antibodies to fight viral infections you might want to rethink that statement a bit because if your married to that.. then you also have to toss out the idea that vaccines work.

        Stay well and make good choices for yourself and those close to you.

        Comment


        • There are plenty of diseases where infection/vaccine does not bestow lifetime immunity. So far with COVID19 it's looking like those with asymptomatic or mild infections may only have very limited immunity (with many having zero detectable antibodies a short time after infection). But there's a lot more research to be done.

          Also, vaccines can have much more potent and long-lasting immunity effects than natural infections:

          But Watts said the low and short-lived levels of antibodies in asymptomatic infections in this study suggest we can't rely on herd immunity being induced for long enough a period of time to have an impact.

          That means we may need to wait for a vaccine that induces a stronger, longer-lived response than many natural infections, she said. "I think this puts even more pressure on vaccine development."

          https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/asymp...d-19-1.5629172
          Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Sat Jul 4th, 2020, 01:44 PM.

          Comment


          • My wife got the chicken pox twice in her life. Once as a young kid.. and again as a teenager.. but she might be a rare case. I've had it, and never got it again. Vaccine's are not 100% either, and I'm really skeptical that any vaccine that gets produced will actually work on a majority of people.

            I think some people will be immune. Others won't be. I think the vaccine if produced will work on some but not on others. Unlike the small pox, I think covid will be around for a long time. Like influenza. Hopefully the severity of the virus is diminished over the years.

            All in all, I think putting it on a passport is a dumb idea though.

            Comment


            • planetmars wrote: View Post
              My wife got the chicken pox twice in her life. Once as a young kid.. and again as a teenager.. but she might be a rare case. I've had it, and never got it again. Vaccine's are not 100% either, and I'm really skeptical that any vaccine that gets produced will actually work on a majority of people.

              I think some people will be immune. Others won't be. I think the vaccine if produced will work on some but not on others. Unlike the small pox, I think covid will be around for a long time. Like influenza. Hopefully the severity of the virus is diminished over the years.

              All in all, I think putting it on a passport is a dumb idea though.
              it's already endemic in some places and quickly going that way most others. some places just haven't accepted it yet.

              Comment


              • KHD wrote: View Post

                it's already endemic in some places and quickly going that way most others. some places just haven't accepted it yet.
                Just stay away from the states and you'll b CORONA FREEE

                Haha

                Different times!

                Will TO become a super prime FA destination now?!??!?

                YOLOOOOO

                Comment


                • Demographic Shift wrote: View Post

                  I admire your belief that the world is largely empty of chicanery.
                  Its hard to reconcile that with a world chock full of

                  Identity theft.
                  Insurance fraud.
                  Passport forgery.
                  Cyber theft..
                  Etc
                  Etc
                  Etc.
                  I just don't see why an opportunity such as an immunity passport would be left unexploited by the chicaner's amongst us..


                  As for holding the notion that Covid19 is somehow exempt from the science of genetics on how your body's immune system generates antibodies to fight viral infections you might want to rethink that statement a bit because if your married to that.. then you also have to toss out the idea that vaccines work.

                  Stay well and make good choices for yourself and those close to you.
                  Uhh, it's well established that the body can sustain immunity from some viruses and not others, and sometimes only for a period of time before immunity wears off. That even varies from person to person - heck, most vaccines work for only a portion of the population, but the effect of a large enough portion being immune is that the spread rate is suppressed enough to reduce the danger of the virus. Hard to say yet with this virus what level of herd immunity will be needed considering the combination of its high spread rate and dangerous symptoms. And all that before considering the impact of potential mutations of the virus, which it is too early to be truly confident we have a handle on.

                  As for the chicanery, the point is not that it doesn't exist, but that as ever, for the most part, in systems where there are big issues, people assume chicanery is the big issue, and it is rarely even a tiny issue compared to the systemic issues inherent in that system. Say, for example, voter fraud. Ooh, scary. But it never happens. Cases of voter fraud are so rare as to not exist. And yet in the name of preventing it, there is real voter suppression that occurs in many countries in the name of preventing that fraud, and that does far more damage to the reliability of elections than even a dramatic increase in voter fraud could. Same idea here - you worry about the guy who fakes an immunity passport, but the issue is that everyone who gets one is quite possibly still a danger for spreading the disease - it's the system that will fail on its own, not because of some outlier bad guys who will exploit it.
                  twitter.com/dhackett1565

                  Comment


                  • Sonny wrote: View Post
                    The cases in Florida is spiking at an unprecedented rate. The situation today in FLA is actually worse than it was 3 months ago.

                    My question is, if the NBA is so adamant in resuming their season under these circumstances then why suspend the season in the first place? i know money talks so who cares if a player die right?
                    How do you know it is only the NBA who wants this?

                    Comment


                    • Sonny wrote: View Post
                      The cases in Florida is spiking at an unprecedented rate. The situation today in FLA is actually worse than it was 3 months ago.

                      My question is, if the NBA is so adamant in resuming their season under these circumstances then why suspend the season in the first place? i know money talks so who cares if a player die right?
                      Is this a serious question? They suspended the season to protect players and personnel when we had a disease spreading through the league (and world) that we didn't understand and a system that could not handle it. They've implemented a system now that they think can protect the league from the surrounding environment. The surrounding environment being bad doesn't change the concept behind the bubble system they have implemented. Money talks which is why they made sure to come back eventually (they being both the NBA and the NBPA). But, I mean, it's pretty obvious the reason they shut down so long was specifically to be able to put this system in place to protect the players and team personnel.
                      twitter.com/dhackett1565

                      Comment


                      • I've seen the Florida doom reports a lot.

                        Florida is actually a pretty big state.. and the biggest outbreaks are in the south / south west. Orlando is inland and although do have many positive results, are not in the same ball park when compared to the state of Florida as a whole.

                        Second, the league is creating a bubble to protect all players that enter it. Guys that are testing positive now are being tested before they enter that bubble. Teams like the Nets, Clippers and Suns who have gotten positive results are not because of Florida but because of where there practice facilities are located (NY, California, Arizona). The NBA is expecting some players to have it so they can self isolate, and then get into the bubble safely. Guys like DeAndre Jordan opted out but he could have still played.. like Dinwiddie is planning to do.

                        The pressing issue is the Disney staff who are allowed to leave the bubble and come in. And I'm almost positive the NBA has come up with a process for these individuals as they re-enter the bubble. Hopefully they will force them to use gloves/masks and have protocols in place to avoid direct contact with players.

                        They also have a process in place for when someone leaves the bubble.. which may happen. Orlando Magic players for example might have family in Orlando. Serge has a daughter in Orlando. They may be tempted to leave and come back. But the league is going to do full nasal swab tests for any player that leaves.. before they can re-enter need to be negative. I wouldn't be surprised if they have key card in place and some type of monitoring system to see who leaves and who doesn't.

                        Let's hope the system works. If there is a crack it could all fall apart, but a billion dollars (or so) are riding on this to be successful. Both players and the league, and media companies like ABC/ESPN need this to be successful. I think it will be.

                        Comment


                        • Six months into a pandemic that has killed over half a million people, more than 200 scientists from around the world are challenging the official view of how the coronavirus spreads.

                          The World Health Organization and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention maintain that you have to worry about only two types of transmission: inhaling respiratory droplets from an infected person in your immediate vicinity or — less common — touching a contaminated surface and then your eyes, nose or mouth.

                          But other experts contend that the guidance ignores growing evidence that a third pathway also plays a significant role in contagion.

                          They say multiple studies demonstrate that particles known as aerosols — microscopic versions of standard respiratory droplets — can hang in the air for long periods and float dozens of feet, making poorly ventilated rooms, buses and other confined spaces dangerous, even when people stay six feet from one another.

                          “We are 100% sure about this,” said Lidia Morawska, a professor of atmospheric sciences and environmental engineering at Queensland University of Technology in Brisbane, Australia.
                          https://news.yahoo.com/scientists-ig...120014485.html

                          Comment


                          • The report cited in the article says "The weight of the available evidence warrants immediate attention to address the significance of aerosols and implications for public health protection." This is science-speak for "We need more studies" not "Everything we thought is wrong." Not saying that aerosols aren't a consideration, just that the evidence for them being a significant spreader are a couple of incidences and some laboratory condition experiments. As the quote above suggests, "poorly ventilated rooms, buses and other confined spaces (could be) dangerous."

                            As always, the key determinants are where you are, your environment, and how common the disease is in your area. My daughter just informed me that the whole Durham region (population over 600,000) currently has 27 cases. I wouldn't be concerned about going to the grocery store there. I'm in the Peterborough County area. They have had 95 confirmed cases since this started for a population of 135,000, with no currently active cases. So one chance in 1,400 I would have come across someone with it in this area over the last four months. Well, if I was on a bus, or going into a confined space, I would wear a mask. If I was going to the Farmer's Market, I wouldn't bother. This new report wouldn't change a thing in my life. But people have to make informed decisions for themselves, using actual data, not newspaper headlines.

                            Comment


                            • This is a very new virus. They need more studies on all fronts. This is useful information in my opinion.

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                              • Apollo wrote: View Post
                                This is a very new virus. They need more studies on all fronts. This is useful information in my opinion.
                                Agree 100% Apollo. I've been preaching the data mantra since day one. Can't go by headlines or media reports or even scientific reports at times. The whole thign has been politicized beyond belief.

                                Here is a take about the lack of cases after outdoor protests.
                                https://cliffmass.blogspot.com/2020/...r-air-for.html

                                From the blog post:
                                "The reasons for a lack of outdoor transmission are clear:
                                • Virus concentration are low outdoors because of the tremendous dispersion of the virus in the outside environment. This results in low viral concentration.
                                • Solar radiation rapidly kills the virus.
                                • Higher humidity in the outside air is bad for transmission.
                                • Social distancing is much easier outside.

                                We have folks going outside with great fear, even wearing masks when they are alone or distant from others.

                                The other day I was biking down the Burke Gilman trail and an older woman saw me coming and fled off the trail, pushing her mask tight around her mouth as she turned to face away from me. There was profound fear in her eyes and it was completely unnecessary. Really bothered me.


                                And such fear is being stoked by local politicians and governments. The City of Seattle parks STILL has many of the parking lots closed and threatening signs everything.

                                Completely inconsistent with scientific evidence and even the Mayor’s Office’s own statement on the lack of transmission during the protests. Talk about being anti-science and irrational.
                                "
                                Last edited by Puffer; Sun Jul 5th, 2020, 06:34 PM.

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