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  • golden wrote: View Post
    ...To get the entire herd moving you might have to resort to alarmism to get the defiant stragglers off their ass, because the problem with highly contagious diseases are that it only takes one straggler to seed another wave of outbreaks and un-ravel any good that was done.
    So, if you had God like powers, and knew the absolutely correct thing to do, and there was no possibility of giving out advice that turns out to be wrong, yeah, maybe lying would be okay. Of course, if you had those powers, you would always be right, so you wouldn't have to lie to have credibility.

    As it is, with no one actually having those powers, haven't we seen a shit load of straight out wrong advice being given out over the last couple of decades, regarding CO2, fat in the diet, the problems with increasing carbohydrate consumption, COVID-19 viral particles existing on surfaces etc. Aren't we getting tired of some ass clown predicting some new apocalyptic event in only 2/5/or 10 years than never happens. Aren't we tired of government money being pissing down the drain to comply with some shouting loony crowd insisting that it's almost too late?

    I say, anyone who resorts to alarmism should be forced to line up and take slaps to the face for every person who is caused unnecessary disruption when the alarmism turns out to be bogus. Give me the facts. If you don't have facts, STFU and move out of the way for the guy behind you who DOES have some.

    Not aiming this at you Golden. I'm just sick and tired of people who think they know better making decisions for me without having the facts behind their assertions.
    Last edited by Puffer; Mon Jul 13th, 2020, 07:13 PM.

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    • golden wrote: View Post

      Is there really a middle ground? To get the entire herd moving you might have to resort to alarmism to get the defiant stragglers off their ass, because the problem with highly contagious diseases are that it only takes one straggler to seed another wave of outbreaks and un-ravel any good that was done.
      Yes, there's a middle. Matter of fact, I think the argument for the middle in the US is even stronger than in other places. Like you said, culturally they just don't like/accept being told by government. Come in hot with a hammer down your throat approach, and you got a backfiring with people throwing covid parties and having fits when politely asked to wear a mask. Come in with a grass-roots, balanced, state by state approach based on their specific, local health and economic realities (which varies a lot from state to state and even county to county), and you may have a fighting chance.

      You will always have wingnuts on both extremes, but at the end of the day, people in the U.S., like everywhere else, just want to be healthy while also being able to provide for themselves and their families. Come in with a grounded approach that can be seen as an honest attempt to balance these two things, and it may just be the apolitical breath of fresh air they need to win the day.
      2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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      • lmao
        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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        • Puffer wrote: View Post

          So, if you had God like powers, and knew the absolutely correct thing to do, and there was no possibility of giving out advice that turns out to be wrong, yeah, maybe lying would be okay. Of course, if you had those powers, you would always be right, so you wouldn't have to lie to have credibility.

          As it is, with no one actually having those powers, haven't we seen a shit load of straight out wrong advice being given out over the last couple of decades, regarding CO2, fat in the diet, the problems with increasing carbohydrate consumption, COVID-19 viral particles existing on surfaces etc. Aren't we getting tired of some ass clown predicting some new apocalyptic event in only 2/5/or 10 years than never happens. Aren't we tired of government money being pissing down the drain to comply with some shouting loony crowd insisting that it's almost too late?

          I say, anyone who resorts to alarmism should be forced to line up and take slaps to the face for every person who is caused unnecessary disruption when the alarmism turns out to be bogus. Give me the facts. If you don't have facts, STFU and move out of the way for the guy behind you who DOES have some.

          Not aiming this at you Golden. I'm just sick and tired of people who think they know better making decisions for me without having the facts behind their assertions.
          Not saying I have God-like powers , but I WAS the first person on this board to suggest (er, rant) early and often, that we should ALL be wearing masks. To me, wearing a mask was just an obvious, no-brainer thing to do, that required no justification whatsoever, because the benefit was logical and self-evident.

          What I'm questioning here is the threshold of "alarmism". In hindsight, were lockdowns, social distancing, shutting down schools, restaurants and public places actually "alarmist"? Or were those "alarmist" protocols actually prudent in light of what's happening the US?

          And if you're sick and tired of people making decisions for you, Puff, then I'm guessing you haven't lived in or been exposed to other non-democratic forms of government where even more decisions are made for you. Your STFU comment smacks of western privilege, but people who have grown up in democracies have forgotten that there was and is some price that needs to be paid (in form of obedience, discipline, loyalty, service) for the rights and freedoms we enjoy in these times of national emergency.

          It's funny how newer immigrants (aka "You People") up here in Markham were the first to whip out the masks and obeyed lockdown rules without complaint. They did their Canadian civic duty, while the "Old Stock" Canadians were bristling at dumbass government disrupting their privileged lives, and many still don't wear masks, from what I've seen around town recently.

          Pandemics are an extremely serious and thorny problem where one just individual can harm the entire group and start the whole cycle all over again. Like you, I'm mostly just really disappointed at the medical and science experts... many have been exposed as incompetent, corrupt, or both. That's who our leaders were taking their cues from.

          But what's the alternative? Do you really want to live in a system that handles pandemics "efficiently" like China? Open systems have their weaknesses, and pandemics look like a potential fatal flaw that can be exploited, along with terrorism.

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          • golden wrote: View Post
            ...But what's the alternative? Do you really want to live in a system that handles pandemics "efficiently" like China? Open systems have their weaknesses, and pandemics look like a potential fatal flaw that can be exploited, along with terrorism.
            I am sick and tired of the number of people who are "spinning" whatever they say to provide some benefit to themselves or their particular special interest group. Everything seems to be politicized. Every piece of advice seems to be crafted to make some group or individual look bad. I would like to see people looking out for themselves, and everybody else, at the same time. I'm tired of labels, I'm tired of people inventing new meanings for words. I'm tired of posturing and I'm tired of being lectured at by celebrities who have no clue about subjects they are pontificating on. And worse, I am tired of the media who pipe this crap into the airwaves and online without caring about accuracy, facts or logic. Only caring about ad rates and clicks and ignoring the harm they are causing. And I am REALLY tired of people who post crap on FB without even checking at SNOPES. I mean, for God's sake people. Get a clue.

            Thanks guys. I needed that. Been a tough couple of days. But it's all good now.

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            • Puffer wrote: View Post

              I am sick and tired of the number of people who are "spinning" whatever they say to provide some benefit to themselves or their particular special interest group. Everything seems to be politicized. Every piece of advice seems to be crafted to make some group or individual look bad. I would like to see people looking out for themselves, and everybody else, at the same time. I'm tired of labels, I'm tired of people inventing new meanings for words. I'm tired of posturing and I'm tired of being lectured at by celebrities who have no clue about subjects they are pontificating on. And worse, I am tired of the media who pipe this crap into the airwaves and online without caring about accuracy, facts or logic. Only caring about ad rates and clicks and ignoring the harm they are causing. And I am REALLY tired of people who post crap on FB without even checking at SNOPES. I mean, for God's sake people. Get a clue.

              Thanks guys. I needed that. Been a tough couple of days. But it's all good now.



              I was not expecting to be your sounding board, Puff, but glad I could help talk you down from the ledge. RR works in mysterious ways.

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              • golden wrote: View Post




                I was not expecting to be your sounding board, Puff, but glad I could help talk you down from the ledge. RR works in mysterious ways.
                Rewatched that scene because I love the quote... Paddy Chayefsky must be some kind of clairvoyant genius.

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                • On a lighter note, this is interesting. I may be avoiding air-conditioned public spaces for a while in lieu of the outdoors until I see some additional research.

                  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/...avirus-spread/

                  Thanks, Golden. I loved that movie. Captured the moment.

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                  • Puffer wrote: View Post
                    On a lighter note, this is interesting. I may be avoiding air-conditioned public spaces for a while in lieu of the outdoors until I see some additional research.

                    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/07/...avirus-spread/

                    Thanks, Golden. I loved that movie. Captured the moment.
                    I've been saying this since the beginning, that hotter states would get his as soon as they fire up the AC - viruses hang in the air when that air is cool and dry. This is why meat packing plants are such a significant vector.

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                    • Makes you wonder when next NBA season will start... (it already made sense to wait this thing out given how late the Bubble season is going to go)
                      Last edited by SkywalkerAC; Tue Jul 14th, 2020, 05:21 PM.

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                      • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post
                        https://twitter.com/briantaff6abc/status/1283050442537172998

                        Makes you wonder when next NBA season will start... (it already made sense to wait this thing out given how late the Bubble season is going to go)
                        The real question is when they can let fans back in the building. They'll probably be able to go back to regular traveling around (though you'd hope they would put some effort into avoiding it when possible), etc, for next season, but the fans back in huge numbers is the one that will be delayed a long time.
                        twitter.com/dhackett1565

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                        • "Leading epidemiologist Dr. John Ioannidis of Stanford University estimates that about 150-300 million or more people have already been infected by COVID-19 around the world, far more than the 10 million documented cases......For people younger than 45, the infection fatality rate is almost 0%. For 45 to 70, it is probably about 0.05-0.3%."

                          I've got a lot of respect for this guy. "Ioannidis's 2005 paper "Why Most Published Research Findings Are False"[1] is the most downloaded paper in the Public Library of Science[18][19] and is considered foundational to the field of metascience.[20] In the paper, Ioannidis demonstrates that most published research does not meet good scientific standards of evidence. Ioannidis has also addressed the replication crisis in diverse scientific fields including genetics,[21] clinical trials,[22] and neuroscience.[23] His work has aimed to identify solutions to problems in research, and on how to perform research more optimally.[24][25]"

                          This article of his thoughts and conclusions on COVID-19, published June 27th, is worth a read: https://usa.greekreporter.com/2020/0...oannidis-says/

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                          • SkywalkerAC wrote: View Post


                            Makes you wonder when next NBA season will start... (it already made sense to wait this thing out given how late the Bubble season is going to go)
                            View this through an ultra capitalist lens (the likely perspective of most team owners): It makes sense to start next season as soon as they can get away with it, wherever the players will accept to play it and for ever how long the players will accept to play it. There is HUGE demand for sports right now and little competition.

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                            • Apollo wrote: View Post

                              View this through an ultra capitalist lens (the likely perspective of most team owners): It makes sense to start next season as soon as they can get away with it, wherever the players will accept to play it and for ever how long the players will accept to play it. There is HUGE demand for sports right now and little competition.
                              They'll look for new ways to monetize if ticket sales are out. Gate is 40% of league revenue iirc.
                              "We're playing in a building." -- Kawhi Leonard

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                              • This estimate is around 6 times larger than the total number of confirmed cases for the area. If accurate, it would put the hospitalization rate at a little under 3% and the death rate at a little over 1% in the Lower Mainland
                                The name's Bond, James Bond.

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