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  • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
    Nobody talks about how in Italy because of not having enough equipment they have to choose who dies and not. Younger people get priority. Is this really old people killer?
    [please don't shoot, I come unarmed].. just Some demographic/cultural peculiarities about Italy:

    --It is the oldest country in Europe (as in age of the population), and Europe is the oldest continent.
    --A quarter of the adult population smokes. That is the overall rate, but like everywhere else, it's skewed towards older people (fewer younger smoke compared to the older people)
    --It's now in lockdown, but before the pandemic (and also on its early stages), have a very active and social senior population, frequently congregating in groups over music, food and large family gatherings (they're a fun bunch for sure, and the country is beautiful)
    --The population of Italy is 60.5 million, but territorially is a quarter of the size of Ontario.
    --Italy/Rome is one the most visited places on the planet with large amounts of tourists frequently coming from all over the world
    2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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    • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
      Nobody talks about how in Italy because of not having enough equipment they have to choose who dies and not. Younger people get priority. Is this really old people killer?
      Spain as well. Regarding ventilators / intubation, read about a Madrid Dr. using criteria like "Minimum 2 years Life Expectancy". The same Dr. was quoted saying we can't intubate everyone that needs to be, like they normally would do. Scary.

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      • Here is an article that looks at the numbers, cases, countries and comes to s different conclusion than many others. Infection rate, based on actual analysis of confirmed cases looks to be much lower than has been speculated. Well worth a read, since there is no real basketball news anyway. Based on this analysis of the pandemic, restarting the season looks more likely than not. The argument suggests the damage being done to individuals by destroying the economy could be worse than letting the sickness play out.

        https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine...9-1b767def5894

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        • Puffer wrote: View Post
          Here is an article that looks at the numbers, cases, countries and comes to s different conclusion than many others. Infection rate, based on actual analysis of confirmed cases looks to be much lower than has been speculated. Well worth a read, since there is no real basketball news anyway. Based on this analysis of the pandemic, restarting the season looks more likely than not. The argument suggests the damage being done to individuals by destroying the economy could be worse than letting the sickness play out.

          https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine...9-1b767def5894
          Good thorough article with a balanced view. The economic impact of this blows my mind. I've been seeing first-hand on small towns in middle Canada. Notices on doors, panic hoarding , small business announcing permanent closures, rise in domestic violence (kids at home with no school witnessing it), people that used to be really neighbourly now just awkwardly saying hi from a distance. Business with investments set aside for future growth now stalled with the massive plunge in the market. Entrepreneurial spirit in a lot of places just about dead. And many of this towns don't even have a case within hundreds of miles.

          The fear of the unknown does that to people. There are still a lot of unknowns about this pandemic, which is why the more data we have the better. There's one thing we can pretty much bank on though, 6-8 months from now there will be tons of people out of work and struggling in many ways (including in terms of mental and physical health, as chronic stress and hardship physiologically dampens the immune system). We have to remain positive though. Have to believe we're gonna beat this soon, and things will go back to normal.
          2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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          • The name's Bond, James Bond.

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            • I have to make some points after catching up on this thread.

              A virus is a strand of genetic material, RNA or DNA, wrapped in protein. Think of a peanut. The nut is the genetic material, the shell is the protective protein coat. It is arguable whether a virus is even alive or not. I dont think it is, although some scientists would argue otherwise. Thus, it is arguable whethet or not a virus can be killed. Destroyed might be the better term. That being said, there is no cure for a virus. Not just this corona virus, ANY virus. A vaccine isnt a cure. A vaccine is injecting you with the actual virus itself, albeit a relatively inert version. The point is to expose your immune system to the virus, so that it can do the hard and difficult job of identifying the virus particle as a threat, and start the production of antibodies that help destroy the virus. A vaccine often produces mild symptoms, but should not be as severe as symptoms produced from a "wild" infection. Thus, when exposed to the "wild" virus, your body will be prepared and the production of antibodies will happen quickly and you likely can deal with the infection without much problem. But ultimately, it is your body that has to do the work to destroy the virus. This is true of even those folks that are hospitalized right now due to covid19. All the health care system can do is support the patient as best they can in order to give their immune system a chance of defeating the infection.

              When you considet Covid19, a vaccine will really only help a small percentage of us, because only a small percentage of us are really at risk from hospitalization or death from this infection. And by and large, those are people with weakened immune systems, like the elderly and folks dealing with other severe health problems. Now that doesnt mean that you shouldnt get a vaccine should one become available, even if you are super healthy. The vaccine can help you be less likely to be contagious, as your symptoms and immune response will be minimal or non existent when exposed to the "wild" virus. Less coughing and sneezing means less spreading of the virus.

              Now the efficacy of vaccines is another discussion altogether. I heard an interview with a doctor in the US who said, with regards to influenza, we have never produced a vaccine that was greater than 48% effective. He also suggested that the whole idea of flu vaccines, at least right now and in the past, was for R&D. Basically, governments are purchasing these vaccines in order to fund the development of a vaccine in the future that may actually work well. So they market these vaccines to the public so that they have reason to keep buying them, regardless of their effectiveness, with the ultimate goal to produce an effective vaccine at some point in the future. The point right now might not be to inoculate the present, but to keep selling the vaccine to produce the funds necessary for R&D. If folks dont get the vaccine, then governments will need to find the money elsewhere. Plus, its a great medical experiment to keep putting these vaccines out there and see if they work. Eventually, the future becomes the present and voila, we have a great influenza vaccine, and who knows when that could be, maybe this fall!

              So why is it so difficult to make a vaccine? Not considering the monotonous and time consuming lab work, viruses change and evolve over time. So a particular vaccine might prove effective one year, but not so much the next. This is one of the traits that virus have that make some scientists believe they are a form of life ( I still dont buy it though). Anyways, for those here thinking that waiting 18 months for a vaccine to come along is gonna save the day...well you're probably very wrong on that. A vaccine can and will very likely help, but it is not gonna rid us of this virus. Given its nature and ability to spread, its very likely IMO that this virus is here to stay. It will join the other seasonal viruses that we deal with annually, and more than likely we will all be exposed to it at some point. None of this should cause any anxiety or panic.

              As far as the response goes, all of it is to prevent the collapse of society. Do nothing and this thing spreads faster and causes more hospitalizations and deaths than it should. The health care systems in most places are already strained, and in a severe corona pandemic and folks who need care for other problems cant get it and then the whole system folds. Health care workers get sick and have to stay home, putting further stress on the system. Eventually everyone in the health care field gets burned out and come to decide that they may be better off taking care of their own. Meanwhile, the general public has lost confidence in the government, support systems break down and then your days or weeks away from total chaos and anarchy. Looting and stealing ensue, inflation goes through the roof as goods become scarce, and shortly after we killing each other.

              STAY THE F#%K HOME!!

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              • Puffer wrote: View Post
                Here is an article that looks at the numbers, cases, countries and comes to s different conclusion than many others. Infection rate, based on actual analysis of confirmed cases looks to be much lower than has been speculated. Well worth a read, since there is no real basketball news anyway. Based on this analysis of the pandemic, restarting the season looks more likely than not. The argument suggests the damage being done to individuals by destroying the economy could be worse than letting the sickness play out.

                https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine...9-1b767def5894
                Someone didn't like that article. It got taken down.
                your pal,
                ebrian

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                • Joey wrote: View Post

                  The whole world has a 10% Mortality Rate to the COVID-19. 100,000 cases have been closed, and 10,000 deaths have been recorded. (actually, just checked, now 11% ...)

                  This is my go to Site for the stats: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

                  And it used to be going up by like 5,000 cases per day ... now it's going up by like 35,000 cases per day.
                  South Korea's death rate is lower than 1% because they test EVERYBODY. If you compare death rate in South Korea's over 50yr old, then the rate jumps to over 10%

                  South Korea is a very good case study for entire World. It also shows how the most infectious people are 20-29 year olds, who also happen to be oftenly asymptomatic per Chinese study. Scary.
                  Last edited by rocwell; Sun Mar 22nd, 2020, 03:36 PM.

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                  • rocwell wrote: View Post

                    South Korea's death rate is lower than 1% because they test EVERYBODY. If you compare death rate in South Korea's over 50yr old, then the rate jumps to over 10%

                    South Korea is a very good case study for entire World. It also shows how the most infectious people are 20-29 year olds, who also happen to be oftenly asymptomatic per Chinese study. Scary.
                    Hate to go down the conspiracy theory route, but you almost have to wonder if this thing is some kind of perfectly designed biological weapon against free & open societies.

                    It kills older people who are usually in power, it stays undetected in young people who are the most socially active spreaders, and it leaves kids, who are harmless & can be easily manipulated, alone.

                    Scary, indeed.

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                    • ebrian wrote: View Post

                      Someone didn't like that article. It got taken down.
                      Yeah it was the thought police. Mentioning the economic impact of this and questioning things with data/research like he did is forbidden.
                      2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                      • My question is how long can we go on like this? 90% of the economy is shut down. Can this go on longer than 2 weeks? 1 month? at some point life needs to start again. No idea how long it will take until it's safe. But we can't live like this forever.

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                        • Lady from Markham died.
                          Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                          • Here are some numbers for Ontario. Population = 14.57M (2019). As of March 22nd 6pm, number of confirmed COVID-19 Cases = 425 including 5 deaths. So far this represents approx. 0.0029% or 2.9 per 100,000 people.

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                            • Not certain if this is the same article but suspect it probably is... Read it today after someone shared it. Both links are from medium.com

                              it’s a long read but a good read and very informative.

                              https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-be9337092b56

                              Comment


                              • GOLDBLUM wrote: View Post
                                Not certain if this is the same article but suspect it probably is... Read it today after someone shared it. Both links are from medium.com

                                it’s a long read but a good read and very informative.

                                https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-be9337092b56
                                Good article but I doubt it is the same because it advocates an extremely hard government lockdown, hitting the economy even harder than we are now (more short term pain, for medium-term gain). I agree with it but that didn't seem to be the sentiment of the original poster of the medium article that disappeared (I could be wrong there).

                                We're well on our way to a full lockdown if see bad numbers over the next few days. We just need to get these tests rolling. Hopefully social distancing and this first phase bought us enough time.

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