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  • https://uk.news.yahoo.com/swedens-re...155335578.html

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    • Joey wrote: View Post

      Ok. And in the US, where they are moving toward having the most tests done in the world, if not already, for every ~65 Recovered, ~35 people have Died. So that's actually worse than the worldwide stats.

      Anyway, not sure what your point was ... are you trying to say it's not as serious as it actually is? Really?
      I'm not saying coronavirus isnt serious. I'm saying a lot of fuckery is being done to play with people's emotions and have you living in fear. "10000 dead in italy" sounds terrifying. "17000 italians dead via flu every winter" is another headline I could make. Also, the average age of Corona death is about 81 and they all have underlying diseases, in fact,

      how many of the people who are reported as "Covid-19 deaths" in Italy actually had coronavirus listed as their cause of death? Just 12 per cent. What's more, according to the Italian government's own report, half of those who died had three or more other diseases at the time of the death. Nearly 80 per cent had at least two other diseases that they were fighting when they died. Only 1.7 per cent of those who died had no other disease.​​​​​​


      links are provided. 98% of these people were on deaths door. This is definitely unprecedented. However, not sure if it's the disease that's the unprecedented part.
      It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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      • Panic, though, is exactly what many within Sweden’s scientific and medical community are starting to feel. A petition signed by more than 2,000 doctors, scientists, and professors last week – including the chairman of the Nobel Foundation, ProfCarl-Henrik Heldin – called on the government to introduce more stringent containment measures. “We’re not testing enough, we’re not tracking, we’re not isolating enough – we have let the virus loose,” said Prof Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, a virus immunology researcher at the Karolinska Institute. “They are leading us to catastrophe.”
        https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ockdown-europe

        Wonder how the situation will progress in Sweden. Interesting "experiment" even though it sounds wrong to say
        Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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        • G__Deane wrote: View Post
          Toronto Mayor announced minimum $750 and up to $5000 fines for violating rules not to gather in public places.
          Is there a fine for sending 16 tonnes of emergency medical supplies out of country at the beginning of a pandemic? Is there a fine for telling people to go on spring break right before shutting the province of Ontario down? Is there a fine for telling people masks don't work because you have a shortage for medical staff when masks really do work and you're days away from telling everyone to wear masks but keep lying because you didnt' prepare for the pandemic? Is there a fine for letting tens of thousands of people into the country without any screening whatsoever in the middle of a pandemic? Is there a fine for not testing people to confirm they have the virus because you don't have enough tests? Is there a fine for announcing a massive spending bill and days later not having any idea how it works or how to actually get the money to people it is intended for in the middle of an emergency? Just asking....

          Comment


          • S.R. wrote: View Post

            It's going to be really interesting (not trying to be morbid) in hindsight to look at the factors for the locations with the worst outbreaks. Northern Italy has been terrible while the rest of Italy has actually been pretty average in terms of impact. The virus has just taken off in New York. Early response is important across the board, but there are some things in some of these locations specifically that contributed to worse outcomes.

            Identifying some of the factors that create local vulnerability to a pandemic will be super important, scientists have been warning us for years we're prone and unprepared for the next big pandemic. Some permanent systemic changes will definitely come out of this and may affect some people (large, densely populated urban areas?) more than others.
            One interesting stat is the difference in the fatality rates (Deaths/Cases) amongst the western European countries. Italy (11.7%), Spain (8.8%) and Netherlands (8.2%) are the 3 highest followed by UK (7%), France (6.7%), Belgium (6.2%), Switz. (2.4%) and Portugal (2.1%). The countries with the lowest rates are Austria (1.2%) and Germany at only 1%. What factors contribute to the wide spread? Subject of many studies and academic papers in the future. Canada is at 1.1%.

            Comment


            • KeonClark wrote: View Post

              I'm not saying coronavirus isnt serious. I'm saying a lot of fuckery is being done to play with people's emotions and have you living in fear. "10000 dead in italy" sounds terrifying. "17000 italians dead via flu every winter" is another headline I could make. Also, the average age of Corona death is about 81 and they all have underlying diseases, in fact,

              how many of the people who are reported as "Covid-19 deaths" in Italy actually had coronavirus listed as their cause of death? Just 12 per cent. What's more, according to the Italian government's own report, half of those who died had three or more other diseases at the time of the death. Nearly 80 per cent had at least two other diseases that they were fighting when they died. Only 1.7 per cent of those who died had no other disease.​​​​​​


              links are provided. 98% of these people were on deaths door. This is definitely unprecedented. However, not sure if it's the disease that's the unprecedented part.
              Most of what you describe as "fuckery" is doctors pleading with the public to please take this seriously to help save people's lives. Call that living in fear if you like. Just kind of makes it seem like you don't give a crap about anyone who is vulnerable to this thing. Screw the old and the weak, right? They should just die so people don't have to live in fear.

              Yes. The death rates are influenced by testing and age and pre-existing conditions. That doesn't mean the deaths don't count. Heck, death rates for basically any medical scenario are influenced by what other conditions people have. And guess what? A lot of people have conditions.

              The messaging getting out there right now is not nuanced, because people fricking suck at nuance. Tell young people that it mostly affects people with pre-existing conditions, and you get spring break and coronavirus parties. Tell people that this thing is going to kill people (which it absolutely will), and leave it at that, and maybe you can save some lives along the way.
              twitter.com/dhackett1565

              Comment


              • Joey wrote: View Post
                For every 80 people that Recover, 20 have Died. We're currently doubling total cases on a weekly basis.
                I don't understand how people are still questioning validity or urgency of the situation.

                https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
                In Canada, 98% of the 7248 active cases are classified as "in mild condition" (7128) and 2% as "serious or critical" (120)
                The death rate in resolved cases (recovered or dead) is 8%

                Same site: https://www.worldometers.info/corona...ountry/canada/

                Are we doing something better in Canada or is it about to get worse? Or are the active cases really so small here (less than 1/10 of 1% of the population, that numbers are easily skewed?

                Comment


                • slaw wrote: View Post

                  Is there a fine for sending 16 tonnes of emergency medical supplies out of country at the beginning of a pandemic? Is there a fine for telling people to go on spring break right before shutting the province of Ontario down? Is there a fine for telling people masks don't work because you have a shortage for medical staff when masks really do work and you're days away from telling everyone to wear masks but keep lying because you didnt' prepare for the pandemic? Is there a fine for letting tens of thousands of people into the country without any screening whatsoever in the middle of a pandemic? Is there a fine for not testing people to confirm they have the virus because you don't have enough tests? Is there a fine for announcing a massive spending bill and days later not having any idea how it works or how to actually get the money to people it is intended for in the middle of an emergency? Just asking....
                  Good luck getting your answers lol We'll be paying for this for decades on our tax bill, that's for sure, hopefully money well spent

                  Comment


                  • All public events in Toronto are banned till June 30. I doubt basketball is coming back.
                    Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

                    Comment


                    • MixxAOR wrote: View Post
                      All public events in Toronto are banned till June 30. I doubt basketball is coming back.
                      I can't see them allowing any mass attendance events (sports, concerts, trade shows etc) until Sept at the earliest. I can see them letting people go back to work with the warning not to gather in groups of more than 5, then 10 etc, then most non critical businesses allowed to open with bars and restaurants last. The latter will have to happen by July for most of them to survive at all. Sports and concerts will deservedly be last since it could be argued they have the highest risk for lowest societal reward.

                      Comment


                      • Yeah with relatively few exceptions I don't think anyone is "fucking around with a pandemic" or saying is not serious. What I think some people are genuinely trying to do is bring/maintain perspective. Complex health data can be looked at many different ways, and there are often positive trends and negative trends, happening at the same time, especially on something global like this. But the doomsday ones get 10x more attention, because for better or worse, that's how the governments succeed keep people inside. It is what it is. Whether one agrees with or not, questioning it should be allowed in a free society though.

                        It should be ok (although frankly lacking on a balanced debate about this) to highlight the unprecedented, self-inflicted economic damage that could reach depression levels when this is all said and done. But right now anyone that brings that up runs the risk of being considered to be "fucking around with a pandemic". Like, I wouldn't be surprised if that article gets taken down later today.
                        2019 NBA Champions. Glad to have doubted the doubters.

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                        • DanH wrote: View Post

                          Most of what you describe as "fuckery" is doctors pleading with the public to please take this seriously to help save people's lives. Call that living in fear if you like. Just kind of makes it seem like you don't give a crap about anyone who is vulnerable to this thing. Screw the old and the weak, right? They should just die so people don't have to live in fear.

                          Yes. The death rates are influenced by testing and age and pre-existing conditions. That doesn't mean the deaths don't count. Heck, death rates for basically any medical scenario are influenced by what other conditions people have. And guess what? A lot of people have conditions.

                          The messaging getting out there right now is not nuanced, because people fricking suck at nuance. Tell young people that it mostly affects people with pre-existing conditions, and you get spring break and coronavirus parties. Tell people that this thing is going to kill people (which it absolutely will), and leave it at that, and maybe you can save some lives along the way.
                          Yes, that's the first thing I hear when people dare question government motives. A good tactic because it shames and vilifies, and in turn silences, your opponent in the debate.

                          Always Question Everything. No government wants a population of critical thinkers. I'll stay home, and do the flatten the curve thing that nobody ever said or heard of until 2 weeks ago, but I will not sit here and be spoon fed my talking points and refuse to think there's more at play here.
                          It's Klaw Season. Time to hunt.

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                          • in other news
                            Only one thing matters: We The Champs.

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                            • G__Deane wrote: View Post

                              I can't see them allowing any mass attendance events (sports, concerts, trade shows etc) until Sept at the earliest. I can see them letting people go back to work with the warning not to gather in groups of more than 5, then 10 etc, then most non critical businesses allowed to open with bars and restaurants last. The latter will have to happen by July for most of them to survive at all. Sports and concerts will deservedly be last since it could be argued they have the highest risk for lowest societal reward.
                              Games without fans?

                              Comment


                              • DanH wrote: View Post

                                Most of what you describe as "fuckery" is doctors pleading with the public to please take this seriously to help save people's lives. Call that living in fear if you like. Just kind of makes it seem like you don't give a crap about anyone who is vulnerable to this thing. Screw the old and the weak, right? They should just die so people don't have to live in fear.

                                Yes. The death rates are influenced by testing and age and pre-existing conditions. That doesn't mean the deaths don't count. Heck, death rates for basically any medical scenario are influenced by what other conditions people have. And guess what? A lot of people have conditions.
                                Dan, honest question.
                                Why is hyperbole and and belittling others your go-to strategy in an otherwise healthy exchanging of viewpoints?
                                I didn't read "screw the old and the weak" in what Keon posted at all. In fact I read it as him try to find a more healthy balance of opinion, something you often appear to want to shut down.

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