Everything Coronavirus

[bertarapsfan]

I think its safe to say Canada is doing well. We have pasted the point where Italy and Spain got overrun in the hospitals. We have avoided the healthcare over run. So far Canada-1, Rona-0.

Its tough to measure the impacts day to day. We have to measure the impact on 14 day time frames. So far we are into the 14-21 day time frame, We did well for the first 2 week period, now we just have to wait another week and a half to see the impacts. These next 14 days are the real "post-quarantine" days.

[Joey]

You cannot separate the economy from the pandemic. We need to stomp out the pandemic or else we will have much worse economic consequences that will last longer. Setting up a stopping the virus vs. protecting the economy is a false choice. Do both.

Can you elaborate on how you might do that? Because that IS essentially what's happening in Canada - you implement social distancing, keep people from going to work, keep people from going into public places, close the borders, etc. (ie "stomp out the pandemic"), then you provide support for those people and businesses while this gets sorted out (ie "protecting the economy"), so that when its over we don't just have Uber Eats Delivery drivers as the only employed people.
There's no way the economy isn't going to be impacted by a global pandemic. But what has been done, will allow the economy to bounce back fairly quickly once things get back to "normal" without having millions on the street and businesses shuttered everywhere.

I mean, it's either that, or you just stick with status quo, and Millions get sick and businesses lose money anyway, no?

[bertarapsfan]

so that when its over we don't just have Uber Eats Delivery drivers as the only employed people.
?

Prediction uber eats and skip the dishes drivers become the new "wolfs of wall street". They invest their earnings into a bottomed out stock market and emerge as millionaires in the fall.

We then have a world filled with new start ups of dine out only resturants franchises ran by 20 somethings. They out perform the traditional food industry which has been decimated by the virus. We never leave our houses again to go out for a meal.

Ralph from L.A having delivered over 1000 meals during the quarantine enters his name into the ring for the 2020 election and rises to upset victory on the backs of satisfied coustomers. First bill passed is a automatic 25% tip added to every take out meal.

[KeonClark]

Prediction uber eats and skip the dishes drivers become the new "wolfs of wall street". They invest their earnings into a bottomed out stock market and emerge as millionaires in the fall.

We then have a world filled with new start ups of dine out only resturants franchises ran by 20 somethings. They out perform the traditional food industry which has been decimated by the virus. We never leave our houses again to go out for a meal.

Ralph from L.A having delivered over 1000 meals during the quarantine enters his name into the ring for the 2020 election and rises to upset victory on the backs of satisfied coustomers. First bill passed is a automatic 25% tip added to every take out meal.

Day 17: how much weed has berta consumed today?

[MixxAOR]

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/7443540

As the number of new cases and deaths from COVID-19 rises sharply in Sweden the government and the Public Health Agency have presented new measures for how people can further slow the spread of the novel coronavirus.
The death toll in Sweden is now 239. Almost 5,000 cases of the virus have been detected so far, and almost 400 people are in or have been in intensive care for COVID-19.

The new guidelines are:

• Avoid travelling on public transport during rush hours.
• Avoid gathering in places with lots of people.
• Shops must restrict the number of people they allow in, and either stop queues forming, or make sure people make space in the queues.
• The companies that run public transport must not cut the number of services to save money. They must also limit the number of people in each bus or train.
• Sports organisations have been told to cancel all upcoming matches and tournaments.

[G__Deane]

No fallback position. I just think you missed the point ... it's not actually an overreaction ... it's very much an appropriate reaction to a pandemic ... it just seems like an overreaction to some people because the measures actually worked and kept things under control.

Didn't miss any point.

So again, what do you feel the "appropriate" next steps should be for Trudeau and Ford etc when Canada hits, I don't know, 1/10 of 1% affected? A little more than 35X the active cases now = 1/10 of 1% of the population and 98% of them show low non-threatening symptoms. What should the reaction be then that's not an "overreaction"?

Should we do nighttime curfews/lockdowns where you can be arrested//detained unless you are a front line healthcare worker on the way to work or should they jump straight to 24 hour lockdown Marshall Law and shoot you on sight?

It doesn't leave much room for punishment if we ever have 1% of the population affected....maybe gas chambers for those with symptoms?

[inthepaint]

350 Ventilators? What the heck is 350 Ventilators going to do when you need Hundreds of Thousands of them?
And again, 50,000 beds won't be enough when you have Millions of people getting this thing.
And Field Hospitals must cost more than Million Dollars to build and maintain. Hiring the staff to man them and all the equipment is far more than a million bucks a pop I would guess.

This isn't something you can just throw money at to make it go away.

I agree that this guy may very well be pulling some numbers out of his ass. That said, it's worth pointing out that ventilators and hospital beds are not disposable things. They are able to serve hundreds of patients (and in the case of beds, thousands) over their lifespam. Covid is an acute respiratory condition, which means typically the time the patient stays in the hospital occupying a bed is relatively short compared to long-term care patients with chronic illnesses.

Also, field hospitals that are built and maintained efficiently without things like high-end equipment, non-essential staff, tons of computers, overall bureaucracy etc.. can be surprisingly cheap (relatively), especially if they're tailored to a specific disease. The Army and NGO's like Doctors Without Borders build them in the bush out of sheer human resourcefulness and ingenuity to treat everything from shrapnel to malaria.

Money spent directly in healthcare IF spent efficiently, is money well spent. That's not how governments roll though. It's bloated and inefficient with separate dedicated staff in hospitals just to deal with worker unions, "government liasons", parking lots, TPS reports and patient non-health complaints.

The numbers that guy is talking about may look fishy, but the principle is not unreasonable. There are huge direct and indirect costs to government lockdowns and societal paralysis like this. You're not gonna do it to the detriment of prevention of course (it's usually a lot cheaper to prevent something from happening than to treat it), but there's a balance to be found in allocating some of that cost/resources to the health system itself (for better care, prevention, testing etc), especially if the concern is "strain in the health system" to begin with, like it is on this.

[Joey]

Prediction uber eats and skip the dishes drivers become the new "wolfs of wall street". They invest their earnings into a bottomed out stock market and emerge as millionaires in the fall.

We then have a world filled with new start ups of dine out only resturants franchises ran by 20 somethings. They out perform the traditional food industry which has been decimated by the virus. We never leave our houses again to go out for a meal.

Ralph from L.A having delivered over 1000 meals during the quarantine enters his name into the ring for the 2020 election and rises to upset victory on the backs of satisfied coustomers. First bill passed is a automatic 25% tip added to every take out meal.

LOL Someone needs to make this an alternate timeline movie/TV show. 100% would watch.

[Joey]

https://sverigesradio.se/artikel/7443540

It's unfortunate that they have learn the hard way to come to the same conclusion as everyone else - but glad they've at least recognized something needs to change.

[G__Deane]

Where does the 50,000 beds for "millions of people getting this thing" come from ??? Is that for Canada or the world?

Maybe this will help:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ott...emic-1.5519253 Calls mount for Ottawa to release projections on COVID-19 spread

and Ontario Premier Doug Ford says 'sobering' data coming Friday on possible death and hospitalization rates

[MixxAOR]

[Joey]

Didn't miss any point.

So again, what do you feel the "appropriate" next steps should be for Trudeau and Ford etc when Canada hits, I don't know, 1/10 of 1% affected? A little more than 35X the active cases now = 1/10 of 1% of the population and 98% of them show low non-threatening symptoms. What should the reaction be then that's not an "overreaction"?

Should we do nighttime curfews/lockdowns where you can be arrested//detained unless you are a front line healthcare worker on the way to work or should they jump straight to 24 hour lockdown Marshall Law and shoot you on sight?

It doesn't leave much room for punishment if we ever have 1% of the population affected....maybe gas chambers for those with symptoms?

I don't know what the policy should be ... and haven't claimed to. Now your turn .. what should we do that will stop this thing and keep everything status quo? It's not that easy is it, because this has never happened before in modern history. There is no precedent. So you listen to the people that have been studying this shit for years, and planning for this, for years, and hope we hired the right people.

But all of those people who have "low non-threatening symptons", as you put it, are still contagious, and if left to just go about their normal day-to-day, will infect someone who doesn't just have "low non-threatening symptoms". Again, that is the point of all of this .. to slow the spread. You'll never stop it outright in a couple weeks .. but you can slow it to the point it's far more manageable to contain.

I mean, by all means, if you want to go hang out in public, and touch your face after rubbing a handrail, and go about your normal life, by all means, but I don't think you will ... so I'm not sure what you're trying to argue exactly.

And punishment? Who's being punished? And Gas chambers? This got weird.

[Joey]

Where does the 50,000 beds for "millions of people getting this thing" come from ??? Is that for Canada or the world?

Did you read the article I was referencing that Keon quoted?

[KeonClark]

It's unfortunate that they have learn the hard way to come to the same conclusion as everyone else - but glad they've at least recognized something needs to change.

It actually proves nothing. EVERYBODY'S numbers curve up like that, even the draconian Wuhan and Northern Italy lockdowns. At least Sweden is trying to have an economy to come back to.

[MixxAOR]

Sweden vs it's neighbors