Everything Coronavirus

[KeonClark]

If they can make it mandatory for your kids to have a flu shot to attend school, then they can make it mandatory that you take a vaccine for COVID. You don't spend billions pushing the economy towards certain turmoil in the name of saving lives and then risk those same lives all over over again.

Here's my thing, and perhaps pardon my ignorance as I'm not as versed as some of the experts that have cropped in the epidemiology field on Facebook in recent months..

why does everybody need a vaccine? If you take the vaccine, you re protected? So it wouldn't matter to you if Joe Bob doesn't get it?

[Rudy Bargnani]

Here's my thing, and perhaps pardon my ignorance as I'm not as versed as some of the experts that have cropped in the epidemiology field on Facebook in recent months..

why does everybody need a vaccine? If you take the vaccine, you re protected? So it wouldn't matter to you if Joe Bob doesn't get it?

Well, depending on the vaccine in general some people are not able to get them.. Maybe they have really bad immune systems or are in some cases if they are pregnant. Babies usually can't get them until they are a certain age. So to your point Joe Bob doesn't get a vaccine and shakes off a virus but spreads it to the sick dude or baby that can't get vaccinated.

edit— that’s why you should get a flu shot too even if you never get sick.

[MixxAOR]

Realistically there won't be mandatory vaccination. It'll be like seasonal flu where if you want to, you can get it. It will result in some deaths that we don't have to care about

[MixxAOR]

Here's my thing, and perhaps pardon my ignorance as I'm not as versed as some of the experts that have cropped in the epidemiology field on Facebook in recent months..

why does everybody need a vaccine? If you take the vaccine, you re protected? So it wouldn't matter to you if Joe Bob doesn't get it?

I mean people who studied the field for years are not giving us much confidence either. So no real difference lol

[MixxAOR]

Alex Len, Buddy Hield and Derrick Jones Jr. also tested positive for COVID.

[Apollo]

You started by saying they can't force vaccination, this isn't a communist country, then veered dangerously close to dictator law anyway... "they could just make it so if you don't get it, you can't travel, or get a job in your field.....or vote, drive a motor vehicle, enter buildings..." sounds a lot like forced vac without being forced vac.

I predicted plausible things they may try given the circumstances.

First, I said that countries may come together and agree that no foreigners will be permitted within their borders without proof of vaccination. Canadians are not forced by Canada to do anything in this scenario. Canadians are forced by other countries to provide proof of vaccination to enter their borders.

Second, I said if the Liberals felt bold they could try to allow companies/organizations in certain sectors to require vaccinations to work (ie: health care). I also said that I thought it would be unlikely to fly due to the unions blocking it.

You then picked up the ball and ran so fast that you went back in time to 1984.

[suspenders]

Regarding vaccines - if people are "forced" to get one, what's to stop people from paying doctors to sign their supposed universal cards saying they are vaccinated?

On a large scale, how does one get verified that they were in fact, vaccinated?

And of course, this assumes a vaccine that is 100% effective. If Covid-19 mutates similarly to influenza, will there be 7 billion people in the world getting vaccines every single year?

[Apollo]

Again and again, you misquote people. How often have I had to say "where did I say this?" in response to a post by you putting words in my mouth? Where did I say leave it all wide open except long term care?

In fact I said "If they 100% locked long long term care homes (similar to what they eventually did anyways) and let the rest of businesses stay open (maybe even with the 2M restrictions)" and i would add including masks, hand sanitizing etc

Perhaps when you are going to put words in my mouth, I'll ask you to use the quote you are referring to so you can think twice in the future as to whether you're being accurate? I'm suggesting that if we had restrictions but not total work shutdown (they could have considered limiting group gatherings, closed crowded bars/restaurants/concerts/sporting events) and put total lockdowns on LTC homes, there would have been far fewer deaths.

I didn't misquote you. I repeated back to you what I thought you communicated in order to make sure I understood. I then asked you if that were correct. A misquote doesn't end a question asking for confirmation about said interpretation. Don't misquote me, please. What you said in response to what I said to someone else was very vague. I'm not a mind reader.

[bertarapsfan]

One of the issues with a global vaccine as a solution is there will be piles of people pushing back on it. Just look at face masks.

Whoever's producing/controlling it will make billions off it, just that fact alone will drive the tinfoil hat cottage industry.

Some people don't like the government telling them what to wear, where to stand, where they can and can't go. Just wait until the government tells them they have to put a needle in their arm...

Wonder what liability will look like for people who resist/refuse. You skip out on the vaccine and take coronavirus into a LTC home 2 years from now, 7 people die. What happens? People were already starting to face criminal charges for coughing on someone as a 'joke.'

I am not a tinfoil hat guy but really wonder where you draw the line here in terms of government overreach. You can rationalize a lot of intervention in the name of public safety.

Tin Foil hat aside the fact that media keep saying maybe end of 2020 or 2021 for a vaccine would not meet my personal standards to take a vaccine. Long term heath studys are cruical talking like 1-2 years minimum after a trail group are given a vaccine to ensure there are not long term side effects. Just like people say we do not know if getting and recovering from covid has long term impacts the same would be true even if they find something that works. You cant just find something the potential works inject it into the masses and wipe your hands.
Lets say they find a real vaccine this December (which is still a long shot). They start trials off a group and it goes well for the first 3 months. As a someone in my late 20s who has no under lying heath conditions im not taking that. 3 months of testing is not enough for me to put a foreign substance into my body that hasnt had long term effects studied on it subjects.

The 18 month thing was always bullshit if you look at any type of new virus vaccine studys.

[bertarapsfan]

You started by saying they can't force vaccination, this isn't a communist country, then veered dangerously close to dictator law anyway... "they could just make it so if you don't get it, you can't travel, or get a job in your field.....or vote, drive a motor vehicle, enter buildings..." sounds a lot like forced vac without being forced vac.

Its funny i remember being pro lockdown and just lets play this month out and see what happens guy in March.
I prefaced that by saying if we ever get to a point were people who have had the virus or were vaccinated had to get some kind of identification to prove it i would be out at that point.
It seems we are going to start hear that talking point soon

[S.R.]

Tin Foil hat aside the fact that media keep saying maybe end of 2020 or 2021 for a vaccine would not meet my personal standards to take a vaccine. Long term heath studys are cruical talking like 1-2 years minimum after a trail group are given a vaccine to ensure there are not long term side effects. Just like people say we do not know if getting and recovering from covid has long term impacts the same would be true even if they find something that works. You cant just find something the potential works inject it into the masses and wipe your hands.
Lets say they find a real vaccine this December (which is still a long shot). They start trials off a group and it goes well for the first 3 months. As a someone in my late 20s who has no under lying heath conditions im not taking that. 3 months of testing is not enough for me to put a foreign substance into my body that hasnt had long term effects studied on it subjects.

The 18 month thing was always bullshit if you look at any type of new virus vaccine studys.

Yeah. I think the short-term thinking we're in right now, with initial shutdown then reopening phases, just doesn't make sense looking at a 12-24 month window (or longer). Let's shift to a permanent strategy now. We have more data about demographic risk factor based on age and health conditions. Isolate, protect, and support those people specifically. Work on more efficient testing and a test & trace policy (preferably national). Do that and I'm guessing the health impact of COVID on the general, healthy public looks a lot more like a seasonal flu.

More info/data has been coming out and policy isn't responding because government is already mid-cycle in a strategy that was determined several months ago when we knew a lot less. There's a lot of inertia in government policy, it takes a lot (and strong leadership) to course correct. I don't know who's got the political will.

[Apollo]

Realistically there won't be mandatory vaccination. It'll be like seasonal flu where if you want to, you can get it. It will result in some deaths that we don't have to care about

Nothing has been normal about this whole thing. Consider for a moment that there is a new normal developing when it comes to COVID19.

Its hard to say what they're going to do once there is(if there is) a vaccine but rest assured the same idea will be presented in support of whatever they do: protect the old, protect the weak and protect against the hospital being overwhelmed. I think I know this because it's been effective so far and governments aren't that creative.

The EU for example is considering blocking US travel indefinitely. It would be quite easy for them to say something like: "ok, you can come in again provided you've proven you're vaccinated".

[Apollo]

Regarding vaccines - if people are "forced" to get one, what's to stop people from paying doctors to sign their supposed universal cards saying they are vaccinated?

On a large scale, how does one get verified that they were in fact, vaccinated?

And of course, this assumes a vaccine that is 100% effective. If Covid-19 mutates similarly to influenza, will there be 7 billion people in the world getting vaccines every single year?

Doctors generally are paid quite well and worked very hard to become doctors. How many of them are going to take a petty bribe like that? If they get caught it would likely mean loss of their medical license because it would be fraud.

I don't see that being a big issue. Not sure how they prove the doctor is telling the truth in a particular case. It would be easy to catch a doctor who does this sort of thing once word gets out though.

[KeonClark]

Doctors generally are paid quite well and worked very hard to become doctors. How many of them are going to take a petty bribe like that? If they get caught it would likely mean loss of their medical license because it would be fraud.

I don't see that being a big issue. Not sure how they prove the doctor is telling the truth in a particular case. It would be easy to catch a doctor who does this sort of thing once word gets out though.

Yeah, doctors would never do that. Also, they would never help an athlete illegally take steroids or HGH. They would never fill out prescriptions that people don't need to feed their addictions. They would never take bribes from pharmaceuticals to push on people and contribute to an opioid epidemic. They would definitely never work for and help Jeffrey Epstein run a child trafficking sex slave operation.

Never.

[suspenders]

Doctors generally are paid quite well and worked very hard to become doctors. How many of them are going to take a petty bribe like that? If they get caught it would likely mean loss of their medical license because it would be fraud.

I don't see that being a big issue. Not sure how they prove the doctor is telling the truth in a particular case. It would be easy to catch a doctor who does this sort of thing once word gets out though.

Hmm... Medical malpractice doesn't exist?